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Arguments against existence of God.
#51
RE: Arguments against existence of God.
Here is the categories:

1. Gnostic Theist
2. Agnostic Theist
3. Gnostic Strong Atheist (let's say you are 100% convinced of the problem of evil/sufferring)
4. Agnostic Strong Atheist
5. Weak Atheist by definition is Agnostic.

Commonly, 3, 4, is referred to as Atheism, while 5 is referred to as Agnosticism.

But now it's become more and more widespread, albeit in Atheist circles mostly, then 5 is atheism as well.

(July 11, 2012 at 6:44 pm)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote: Then fucking prove it. If not you are evading as you are accusing us of doing.

I don't need to prove it. I think you misunderstand my stance. Read the post again. I said strong atheists don't need to prove their stance.

Quote:All of those classifications are arbitrary, Mystic. Dawkins isn't the be-all-end-all authority on what is atheism. You trying to hold us to this classification as if it were the only way to look at atheism is a fallacious appeal to misleading authority.

The classical definition of Atheism is belief there is no gods. This was the original definition as far as I am aware. Now for variety of factors, Atheism is said to be lack of belief in gods. Then now to solve the classification war...there is

"Positive/Strong Atheism"
"Negative/Weak Atheism"
As for Strong Athesim, you can be agnostic in the sense you don't know for sure. Or you can be gnostic.
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#52
RE: Arguments against existence of God.
(July 11, 2012 at 6:45 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: Here is the categories:

1. Gnostic Theist
2. Agnostic Theist
3. Gnostic Strong Atheist (let's say you are 100% convinced of the problem of evil/sufferring)
4. Agnostic Strong Atheist
5. Weak Atheist by definition is Agnostic.

Commonly, 3, 4, is referred to as Atheism, while 5 is referred to as Agnosticism.

But now it's become more and more widespread, albeit in Atheist circles mostly, then 5 is atheism as well.

I thought atheism was a catholic church, thus rejecting your orthodoxes, but I'm not sure where I fit in as a non conformist Please explain.
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#53
RE: Arguments against existence of God.
(July 11, 2012 at 6:52 pm)jonb Wrote:
(July 11, 2012 at 6:45 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: Here is the categories:

1. Gnostic Theist
2. Agnostic Theist
3. Gnostic Strong Atheist (let's say you are 100% convinced of the problem of evil/sufferring)
4. Agnostic Strong Atheist
5. Weak Atheist by definition is Agnostic.

Commonly, 3, 4, is referred to as Atheism, while 5 is referred to as Agnosticism.

But now it's become more and more widespread, albeit in Atheist circles mostly, then 5 is atheism as well.

I thought atheism was a catholic church, thus rejecting your orthodoxes, but I'm not sure where I fit in as a non conformist Please explain.

If your agnostic/weak atheist, going on theists forums, you should state your agnostic. Because the common usage (and original usage of the word) is that atheists believe there is no god while agnostics are neutral about the issue.

Right now, I don't know whom lacks belief in God and whom believes God doesn't exist, because people want to be all under one word that was commonly used to believe gods don't exist, as opposed to being neutral (agnostic).

This is why it's not a loaded question to ask. It seems to me most Atheists although say they don't know for sure, due to problem of evil/suffering believe it's verily unlikely gods exist, that all evidence suggest he doesn't, and hence, really believe there is no god, but aren't sure.

I don't know what your stance is.
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#54
RE: Arguments against existence of God.
Is there is similar 1 to ten system for religious nuts?
If so how do you place an orthodox Jew, a Buddhist monk (ZEN) a Unitarian, a Mormon, A Voodoo Priest, a Jesuit, an Odinist, and the queen of England?
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#55
RE: Arguments against existence of God.
(July 11, 2012 at 7:06 pm)jonb Wrote: Is there is similar 1 to ten system for religious nuts?
If so how do you place an orthodox Jew, a Buddhist monk (ZEN) a Unitarian, a Mormon, A Voodoo Priest, a Jesuit, an Odinist, and the queen of England?

A Jew can be agnostic believer with respect to God or his religion or gnostic towards God or his religion. A Muslim however I would argue cannot be but Gnostic. The reason is they must bear witness to God, there being no other gods, and Mohammad being a Messenger, to be Muslim.

I'm not sure about Christianity, if you are required to know or can simply believe. I don't know enough about religions to know which would requires a gnostic stance as opposed to agnostic stance.
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#56
RE: Arguments against existence of God.
(July 11, 2012 at 7:09 pm)MysticKnight Wrote:
(July 11, 2012 at 7:06 pm)jonb Wrote: Is there is similar 1 to ten system for religious nuts?
If so how do you place an orthodox Jew, a Buddhist monk (ZEN) a Unitarian, a Mormon, A Voodoo Priest, a Jesuit, an Odinist, and the queen of England?

A Jew can be agnostic believer with respect to God or his religion or gnostic towards God or his religion. A Muslim however I would argue cannot be but Gnostic. The reason is they must bear witness to God, there being no other gods, and Mohammad being a Messenger, to be Muslim.

I'm not sure about Christianity, if you are required to know or can simply believe.

So give me the One to ten. . . please
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#57
RE: Arguments against existence of God.
(July 11, 2012 at 7:12 pm)jonb Wrote: So give me the One to ten. . . please

I'm not sure what you mean.
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#58
RE: Arguments against existence of God.
(July 11, 2012 at 7:13 pm)MysticKnight Wrote:
(July 11, 2012 at 7:12 pm)jonb Wrote: So give me the One to ten. . . please

I'm not sure what you mean.

You gave us the 1 to 5 of atheists.
Are you going to give us the 1 to 10 of religious nuts?
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#59
RE: Arguments against existence of God.
[
Quote: The classical definition of Atheism is belief there is no gods.

INCORRECT. It means one does not believe in them. You have been around long enough to know this.
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#60
RE: Arguments against existence of God.
(July 11, 2012 at 7:18 pm)jonb Wrote:
(July 11, 2012 at 7:13 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: I'm not sure what you mean.

You gave us the 1 to 5 of atheists.
Are you going to give us the 1 to 10 of religious nuts?

I gave 3 categories of Atheists. There is naturally two categories for religious people with regards to their religion. They are not nuts btw.
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