Quote:2 Samuel 7

New International Version (NIV)
God’s Promise to David

7 After the king was settled in his palace and the Lord had given him rest from all his enemies around him, 2 he said to Nathan the prophet, “Here I am, living in a house of cedar, while the ark of God remains in a tent.”

3 Nathan replied to the king, “Whatever you have in mind, go ahead and do it, for the Lord is with you.”

4 But that night the word of the Lord came to Nathan, saying:

5 “Go and tell my servant David, ‘This is what the Lord says: Are you the one to build me a house to dwell in? 6 I have not dwelt in a house from the day I brought the Israelites up out of Egypt to this day. I have been moving from place to place with a tent as my dwelling. 7 Wherever I have moved with all the Israelites, did I ever say to any of their rulers whom I commanded to shepherd my people Israel, “Why have you not built me a house of cedar?”’

8 “Now then, tell my servant David, ‘This is what the Lord Almighty says: I took you from the pasture, from tending the flock, and appointed you ruler over my people Israel. 9 I have been with you wherever you have gone, and I have cut off all your enemies from before you. Now I will make your name great, like the names of the greatest men on earth. 10 And I will provide a place for my people Israel and will plant them so that they can have a home of their own and no longer be disturbed. Wicked people will not oppress them anymore, as they did at the beginning 11 and have done ever since the time I appointed leaders[a] over my people Israel. I will also give you rest from all your enemies.

“‘The Lord declares to you that the Lord himself will establish a house for you: 12 When your days are over and you rest with your ancestors, I will raise up your offspring to succeed you, your own flesh and blood, and I will establish his kingdom. 13 He is the one who will build a house for my Name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever.

G-C is famous for picking a line out of his fucking "scripture" and pretending that it tells an entire story. I think he lacks the attention span to actually read this shit in full but it is clear that "god" made a promise to "david" and then fucked him up.

Why don't you ever study up on this shit, G-C? You must know by now that you will have it shoved up your holy ass every time.

(October 12, 2012 at 12:13 am)Darkstar Wrote: Psalms 104:5 "He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved."

The earth moves....

Land in distinction from the sky and seas, not the earth as a planet (see Ge 1:10). foundations See Ps 24.2. can never be moved. Firmly founded, it will not give away to flood waters (cf. v. 9).

(October 11, 2012 at 1:59 pm)Reasonable_Jeff Wrote:

(October 11, 2012 at 12:34 pm)teaearlgreyhot Wrote: Why is God's glory the greatest good? Why should one want to glorify God?

Everyone worships something. When I say worship I'm talking about more than bowing down to something or singing songs to it. What I mean by "everyone worships something" is this: there is something in every humans life that he ascribes the highest value to.

For some people it's their job, that's what they ascribe the highest value to. They dedicate their life to that job, they sacrifice time for their job, they sacrifice relationships, they sacrifice sleep…all of these things are sacrificed to their god…their job. They life revolves around making much of their job.

For some people it's their friends. Their ego, their self-image, the way the perceive life stands or falls based on what they're friends think of them.

For some people it's their animals. They pamper they're animals and buy them clothes and fancy things and take them places to make much of them.

For some people it's their kids. They make their entire world revolve around their children, they sacrifice everything for them and let them run the household.

The problem with this is that all of these things will let you down.

Your favorite team will lose, your girlfriend/wife will hurt your feelings, your job won't last, your friends will eventually let you down or leave you….none of these will fulfill you.

First I worshiped video games. I was always on top of the latest one, then you play it until it doesn't fulfill you anymore..then you look for something else. More of the same thing never fulfills.

Then I worshiped alcohol. When I was happy, I drank, when I was sad, I drank. what I ran to in my times of trouble was the bottle.

Next I worshiped drugs. Alcohol stopped fulfilling me, but drugs were something new and fun. They promised a good time and joy and peace.

One day I felt a very strong impression. "Jeff, you've tried everything that you thought would make you happy but you've never tried me."

I went out and bought a Bible for a few dollars, one that didn't look like a Bible because I was ashamed to be seen reading one. I read Genesis, then Romans….by the end of Romans I gave my life to Christ.

I have worshiped many things in my life. I have sacrificed for many false gods….sex, friends, pets, alcohol, drugs, video games, porn…..none of it fulfills. They would all leave me feeling empty when I was alone.

There is only one thing that you can worship that will never let you down, that will always fulfill, that even though heaven and earth pass away…He will still be there. 

Jesus Christ is the what I ascribe highest value to in my life. I sacrifice my time so that I can read the Bible. I sacrifice my money so that I can give to my church and to help the poor (what Jesus commands me to do). I sacrifice my social status to proclaim his name. I sacrifice everything I can get my hands on to ascribe higher value to my LORD Jesus Christ so that when someone looks at my life they can see that I value something different.

Nothing has ever fulfilled me the way a relationship with Jesus Christ has....to bring glory to Him is my greatest desire simply because it feels good. Christian Hedonism.

I would die today for my LORD Jesus Christ if it came to it. He is the resurrection and the eternal life.

Are you after a sympathy vote that god exists?

God cannot let anyone down because he is a fiction, but belief in him is letting your self-respect down.

People with addictive personalities are easy targets for the god puppeteers.

After reading too much of your discussion, I understand one thing: atheists do not believe in god, however we try to ascertain the character of god, it's intents, qualities, defects, under the assumption that it does exist and that the bible is all the source of knowledge about that god.
Of course, we end up reading the words on the book and come to the realization that this god that is portrayed is inconsistent and we thus conclude that it must not exist.

Believers however, seem to twist their minds around the inconsistencies in order for them to remain consistent. Of course, they believe that the god actually exists, so any inconsistency in the book must come from faulty writing, or faulty understanding of what is written. The fault must lie in the human, never in the god.

Trying to convince a theist that this god does not exist, based on the theist's holy book seems like an impossible mission.
I thus try to avoid it... but I only try....

(October 12, 2012 at 1:59 am)Minimalist Wrote: “‘The Lord declares to you that the Lord himself will establish a house for you: 12 When your days are over and you rest with your ancestors, I will raise up your offspring to succeed you, your own flesh and blood, and I will establish his kingdom. 13 He is the one who will build a house for my Name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever.

I don't see a problem here. This was fulfilled in Jesus Christ who is of the lineage of David.

Jesus is the King raised up by God whose Kingdom will last forever.

Phil 2:8-11
8 And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.
9 Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name,
10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Matt 12:18-21
18 "Behold, my servant whom I have chosen, my beloved with whom my soul is well pleased. I will put my Spirit upon him, and he will proclaim justice to the Gentiles.
19 He will not quarrel or cry aloud, nor will anyone hear his voice in the streets;
20 a bruised reed he will not break, and a smoldering wick he will not quench, until he brings justice to victory;
21 and in his name the Gentiles will hope."

---

(October 12, 2012 at 2:40 am)Doubting_Thomas Wrote: Are you after a sympathy vote that god exists?

Not really, but if someone felt convicted by the Holy Spirit after reading that I would be glad =D

(October 12, 2012 at 2:40 am)Doubting_Thomas Wrote: God cannot let anyone down because he is a fiction, but belief in him is letting your self-respect down.

1 Cor 2:14
The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

(October 12, 2012 at 2:40 am)Doubting_Thomas Wrote: People with addictive personalities are easy targets for the god puppeteers.

If anyone reading this is struggling with an addiction, there is Rest in Jesus.

Matt 11:28
Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

(October 12, 2012 at 10:59 am)Reasonable_Jeff Wrote:

(October 12, 2012 at 2:40 am)Doubting_Thomas Wrote: People with addictive personalities are easy targets for the god puppeteers.

If anyone reading this is struggling with an addiction, there is Rest in Jesus.

Matt 11:28
Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

That's just what faith is?... psychological crutch?
No thank you, I'm whole. No need for crutches.

(October 12, 2012 at 11:13 am)pocaracas Wrote: That's just what faith is?... psychological crutch?

Actually faith begins with a recognition that you need much more than crutches. The imagery the Bible uses is dead in sin....you don't need crutches, you need a resurrection.

(October 12, 2012 at 11:13 am)pocaracas Wrote: No thank you, I'm whole. No need for crutches.

James 4:6
...Therefore it says, "God opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble."

Pro 3:34
Toward the scorners he is scornful, but to the humble he gives favor.

Quote:I don't see a problem here. This was fulfilled in Jesus Christ who is of the lineage of David.

it's hard to see anything when your head is shoved firmly up your own ass, Jeff.

David's kingdom...which was never real in the first place...fell to the Babylonians. "Jesus" is a pure invention and there is no link to David's lineage anyway even in your own silly book.

You can tell yourself any stupid shit you like but understand that you are making it all up.

I see that the non-believers here have done a good job of defending the premise and that believers have not shown that when God is shown as killing children and babies in scriptures that he is justified in doing so.

I note that some want scripture and verse to back up my premise and I will give what prompted the O P.

Romans 9:11-13
King James Version (KJV)
11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

This clip of God on trial bolsters my logic and reason with the words, what could they, children and babies, have done to earn annihilation

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dx7irFN2gdI

This preacher uses scriptures to show what they had done to deserve it but I am not convinced by it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAO98N9pq...re=related

This following shows the supposedly best Christian apologist doing the same.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Na_wcvqU...r_embedded

I think the clip is well title as The Obscenity of Christianity.

The logical position that Christians should take if they believe that it is a blessing to have children and babies die as that would insure that they go to heaven, should lead all these believing parents to kill their children and thus insure that they end in heaven. Otherwise, as scriptures indicate, they, as part of the majority of adults will end in hell.

Regards
DL

Darkstar Wrote:Typical conversion story: I did drugs, was a drunk, and was addicted to video games; therefore all material things are evil because in my personal experience I let them take precedence over family. (Not that family matters; one of them will make a mistake someday! Just you wait, they'll let you down and make you regret ever loving them!)

(October 11, 2012 at 3:14 pm)Godschild Wrote: @ Darkstar, you are childish, you can not give intelligent answers to any replies, I really do not know why you try, being juvenile is a sad thing for a man, that's if you are a man. The truth of scripture has never been disproved, all you want to do is focus on the history of scripture and they were never written for a historical account, they are a spiritual guide to a life that is better than anything you can imagine.

Okay, I admit I can be a little overly sarcastic at times (no one is perfect), but I only did it because I was irked over the fact that Reasonable_Jeff classified people the same as using drugs and alcohol to find fulfillment. Conversion stories from atheism to theism are pretty predictable. They will go something like this:

1. They were never anything close to atheist and are just saying so to add weight to their argument.
2. They were never really atheist, they only thought they were.
3. They focused only on materialistic things, but weren't satisfied. (Reasonable_Jeff seems to fall into this category, but he dismisses actual people as well, so...)
4. They were hopelessly immoral without fear of hell.
5. They had a warm, fuzzy feeling/witnessed an unlikely event in their favor.
6. They are convinced of god via a logical fallacy that they never relaize is a fallacy, and are willing to defend to the death because they want to believe.

If I offended you Jeff, I apologize, especially considering that you are usually one of the more reasonable (no pun intended) theists areound here. However, I still think that it is sad (read: sad emotion, not as in pathetic) that you think of your friends and family as just more unfulfilling things in your life. I suppose that regardless of apparent reasonableness non-casual believers still hold some of the fanatical beliefs of fundamentalists. (Keep in mind you said you would gladly die for god, and that is what the terrorists who caused 9/11 thought they were doing).

As for Godschild, even though my comment wasn't formal, my reasoning still stands. Yours, however, does not. If the bible were nothing more than a spiritual guide, it would not have been written as a historical account; it would have been solid psalms and parables.