(September 4, 2013 at 9:37 am)Drich Wrote: I've said this from the beginning. which is why I keep pointing out that asking us to provide proof of God is a cop out arguement.

I'll give you that... at least you are consistent. Always the same line.
Always the same problem with it, but you just can't see it.

According to the book, Abraham got all the evidence he needed. The apostles also got a lot of first hand evidence... and they all acknowledged the divinity of the god...
Why don't we all get the same level of first hand experience?
Or could it be that.... those who have recorded said first hand experience were, somehow, under some psychotic event?

(September 4, 2013 at 9:37 am)Drich Wrote: I've said this from the beginning. which is why I keep pointing out that asking us to provide proof of God is a cop out arguement.

Christians in mass are not bakers, they are beggers who know where to go to find bread. If you want bread then you yourself will have to follow the instructions on how to get it just like we did. we can not produce/bake the bread for you. This is something you have to do on your own.

Okay, but my point was that you don't know that everyone who has searched for god found him. That's just something you claim in order to bolster your beliefs.

The only cop-out argument is one which requires us to ask a fictional character for evidence of its existence because people who are 100% convinced he does are 100% incapable of justifying their belief to any skeptic.

It is a double cop-out, in fact, because when someone a/s/ks and gets nothing but the silence one is certain to get when talking to imaginary friends, you simply blame the failure on the supplicant.

(September 4, 2013 at 10:00 am)LastPoet Wrote: What? Just because of your romantic view on christianity, it bares nothing in reality Drich. Your whole idea is inherently narcisistic! You speak for god, a god, something you admit to be far from. Yet you proclaim properties from such. How can't you see that?

Being 'far from God' is all a matter of perspective. No matter how far I see myself from God i am still closer than someone who claims to not believe in Him. therefore even given my relitive distance I can still have insight that those who do not believe in Him do not. How can't you see that?

A Mechanic maybe far from being an engineer, but that does not mean he is not able to not only fix or diagnose a given problem. Even though your mechanic may not be an engineer it doesn't mean he is as far from understanding how your car works as you are.

Quote:If your analogy is true, then you christians should update, do what you preach, for once. We have bread for you (well, not the literal bread, but food for thought, bread enough you should a/s/k your majority of christians why there is enough food for the people in this world and all the true christians keep gathering fortunes). You should a/s/k yourself why do you stand for such dogma.

Because The primary christian Doctrine is that there is freedom to be as lacks or stringent as one's faith demands Him to be. The only goal we are to strive to is that we do our very best to understand, Love and worship God. Fore the same attonement offered when we willfully sin is also offered when we do our best and fall short in our worship. so that means there is no one 'right' way to Worship God. There are 30,000 different ways to worship God as witnessed in the various brands of Christianity to varing degrees.

Quote:This does not mean to dismiss your ideas, just to say that you are allowing your ideas to be smeared by ancient dogma, from times we knew half of a shitbag we know today.

/rant

Who told you you must follow ancient dogmas?

If you follow ancient Dogma and that is the limit of your understanding then it is to that dogma that you must be faithful. however if you have the capasity to understand the freedoms offered in Christ, then you can leave those Dogmas behind... that is why we have been tasked to A/S/K the rest of our lives. As we do our capasity for understanding increases allowing us to leave legalism behind.

(September 4, 2013 at 10:57 am)Drich Wrote: however if you have the capasity to understand the freedoms offered in Christ, then you can leave those Dogmas behind... that is why we have been tasked to A/S/K the rest of our lives. As we do our capasity for understanding increases allowing us to leave legalism behind.

Which must be why, when someone a/s/ks and gets no response, you resort to the legalistic explanation of the petitioner not correctly adhering to the dogmatic requirements of a/s/k.

(September 4, 2013 at 10:14 am)pocaracas Wrote: I'll give you that... at least you are consistent. Always the same line.
Always the same problem with it, but you just can't see it.

According to the book, Abraham got all the evidence he needed.

Read genesis again. Abraham's 'evidence' did not just appear. God worked with Him because He found him to be a righteous man. God started off with small stuff, Abram obeyed and was faithful to what he had been given, and God slowly increased his measure of interaction with him.

Quote:The apostles also got a lot of first hand evidence...

Before they were Apstoles they were what? Deciples (padawan/learners) Before they were deciples they were what? Fishermen, tax collectors labors and the like. Now ask yourself what changed? In short Christ asked them to drop what they were doing and follow Him. At that time they had nothing to go on but faith. To which christ further points out all 'we' need is the faith of a mustard seed and you can tell your 'mountain' of doubt to jump in the sea and it will.

Much more faith was required of Abraham and the apstoles.

Quote:and they all acknowledged the divinity of the god...
Why don't we all get the same level of first hand experience?

'We' do. all you have to do is Ask, Seek, Knock for it.

Quote:Or could it be that.... those who have recorded said first hand experience were, somehow, under some psychotic event?

Them like us have to be simply willing to follow God where ever He may lead.

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(September 4, 2013 at 10:20 am)Faith No More Wrote:

(September 4, 2013 at 9:37 am)Drich Wrote: I've said this from the beginning. which is why I keep pointing out that asking us to provide proof of God is a cop out arguement.

Christians in mass are not bakers, they are beggers who know where to go to find bread. If you want bread then you yourself will have to follow the instructions on how to get it just like we did. we can not produce/bake the bread for you. This is something you have to do on your own.

Okay, but my point was that you don't know that everyone who has searched for god found him. That's just something you claim in order to bolster your beliefs.

In fact i do, fore even if their search in this life is cut short and yields nothing they will find Him in the next.

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(September 4, 2013 at 10:22 am)Ryantology Wrote: The only cop-out argument is one which requires us to ask a fictional character for evidence of its existence because people who are 100% convinced he does are 100% incapable of justifying their belief to any skeptic.

It is a double cop-out, in fact, because when someone a/s/ks and gets nothing but the silence one is certain to get when talking to imaginary friends, you simply blame the failure on the supplicant.

In EVERY instance on this website that one of you points to a time where you believe you have 'a/s/ked' I have been able to simply point out that you infact did not. 95% of the time you all stop knocking when your time lines are not met... To knock as outlined in Luke 11 means to knock and continue to do so beyond all doubt and reason. Look at the man in the parable again. Look at the time of night he was knocking. this man knocked in a time where there should have been no reasonable expectation to receive anything from his neighbor. yet he kept on knocking. With you guys you point to your time growing up in the church as a time spent knocking even though you were just going to church because your parent dragged you there. That's not knocking thats just being dragged to church.

(September 4, 2013 at 11:11 am)Drich Wrote:

Quote:Or could it be that.... those who have recorded said first hand experience were, somehow, under some psychotic event?

Them like us have to be simply willing to follow God where ever He may lead.

Thus far, I've seen no god leading no one.... only people claiming to know what god wants leading other people who believe in these people's claims.

I see a person who wrote a book detailing the methodology to attain contact with the divine..... methodology which relies heavily on self-delusion and confirmation bias...
However, many people have since accepted such methodology and claim to have acquired such contact with the divine. In my view, all those people (you included?) have fallen victims of the self-delusion mechanism inherent on this methodology... and just cannot see it, even if shown.
Powerful stuff, your brain, huh?

(September 4, 2013 at 11:08 am)Ryantology Wrote:

(September 4, 2013 at 10:57 am)Drich Wrote: however if you have the capasity to understand the freedoms offered in Christ, then you can leave those Dogmas behind... that is why we have been tasked to A/S/K the rest of our lives. As we do our capasity for understanding increases allowing us to leave legalism behind.

Which must be why, when someone a/s/ks and gets no response, you resort to the legalistic explanation of the petitioner not correctly adhering to the dogmatic requirements of a/s/k.

that is not the correct usage of the term legalism.

strict, literal, or excessive conformity to the law or to a religious or moral code <the institutionalized legalism that restricts free choice>

There is no religious law being enforced here nor moral code.

These are simple directions as to where one can find 'proof' of God.

If the President wanted to have a sit down dinner with you, but gave you a list of things you must comply with in order to have this dinner would you consider his list law, or some form of social morality? No of course not. His list is a simple list of requirements that one must meet in order to have an audience with him.

Ask/Seek/Knock is God's list.

(September 4, 2013 at 11:11 am)Drich Wrote: In fact i do, fore even if their search in this life is cut short and yields nothing they will find Him in the next.

In fact, you don't, unless you're working with some sort of bizarre definition of the word "know" that I'm not familiar with.

Quote: It is the promise of the Father out lined by Christ in Luke 11. We as believers can only point to the promise of God to reveal Himself to anyone who A/S/Ks

Which is precisely why we consider people like you to be fools. You can't answer a simple question without resorting to quoting from your big book of pious bullshit which has no credibility whatsoever.