So is the reason the church don't apply properly for tax exemption that they'd have to submit their financial records?

(December 10, 2014 at 12:55 pm)robvalue Wrote: So is the reason the church don't apply properly for tax exemption that they'd have to submit their financial records?

No, they're not required to do so, which makes the exemption even more grating.

Why the fuck are they not required?

Excuse me...

Is there a good reason they are not required? They are 100% trustworthy, and not accountable?

Bollocks to that.

People need to understand that Sec. 501 C 3 grants an exemption from Federal Income Tax.

Just as an example, here is the State of California's policies on Real Property Tax Exemptions for Churches.

http://www.boe.ca.gov/proptaxes/pdf/pub48.pdf

Multiply this by 50 in order to comprehend the dizzying variety of rules just on property tax exemptions.

Churches are liable for Social Security taxes on employees but even here special deals are granted to the so-called "ministers" who gt to be treated as self-employed - even though they are not.

Churches are exempt from Federal and State Unemployment Taxes which means that when a church goes belly-up - as happens all the time - its employees get to collect unemployment insurance despite no one having paid into the system for them. Just another little subsidy for this god shit.

Finally, churches are not required to withhold income tax from the salaries paid to the ministers - although the minister can voluntarily decide to have them do so.

Then there is sales tax. Again, this is a state-by-state regulated determination with the added proviso that there are numerous local sales tax entities which may have their own rules.

The 501 C 3 has no bearing on sales taxes beyond the fact that if you do not have a 501 c 3 determination from the IRS you won't even get in the door of the state/municipal agencies.

(December 10, 2014 at 1:01 pm)robvalue Wrote: Why the fuck are they not required?

Excuse me...

Is there a good reason they are not required? They are 100% trustworthy, and not accountable?

Bollocks to that.

That's the point I was referring to. We already have other tax-exempt organizations, and they have to undergo a documentation process to establish that they are in fact deserving of the tax-exempt status. Why not simply have churches follow the same procedure? It wouldn't put any sort of financial burden on them or impact the expression of their worship in any way.

Churches seem to want to have it both ways: they want the tax exempt status that other non-profits enjoy, but also don't think the rules that other non-profits follow should apply to them

(December 10, 2014 at 1:18 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: That's the point I was referring to. We already have other tax-exempt organizations, and they have to undergo a documentation process to establish that they are in fact deserving of the tax-exempt status. Why not simply have churches follow the same procedure? It wouldn't put any sort of financial burden on them or impact the expression of their worship in any way.

Churches seem to want to have it both ways: they want the tax exempt status that other non-profits enjoy, but also don't think the rules that other non-profits follow should apply to them

Thanks to shitty politicians they are right. They have been exempted based on....based on I don't know what. They do nothing but support a class of parasites.

Time to start enforcing the law.

Some preacher/child-molesting motherfucker starts talking about something besides his godshit and what candidates support "god" and he should lose the exemption. And the fucking catholics should all be indicted under the RICO statutes.

Tithes are deductible also so not only does the church not have to pay taxes but the congregation gets a break for giving to the religious institution.

http://finance.zacks.com/much-tithe-can-...-3077.html

(December 10, 2014 at 6:32 am)Pablo Wrote:

(December 10, 2014 at 5:48 am)Godschild Wrote: @ Min, you are suggesting to intrude on our right to be separate from government snoopery.

GC

Why should a church not be held accountable?
Simply because they're a religious organization?
That's the definition of special pleading.
Churches are not sacred, holy, devine, or any other bs label you wanna hang on Them.
The Catholic church alone is a multi-billion dollar organization. Their corporate headquarters The Vatican, is a sovereign state. They're probably the most corrupt company on Earth, and you think we should give them special privileges and tax breaks?

We can't tax the Vatican, it's recognized by the world as a sovereign state, as you said.
Like I said earlier tax the church and then watch us gain access to schools and courts and all other government that we see fit to. You can't have your cake and it it too.

GC

(December 10, 2014 at 5:59 pm)Godschild Wrote:

(December 10, 2014 at 6:32 am)Pablo Wrote: Why should a church not be held accountable?
Simply because they're a religious organization?
That's the definition of special pleading.
Churches are not sacred, holy, devine, or any other bs label you wanna hang on Them.
The Catholic church alone is a multi-billion dollar organization. Their corporate headquarters The Vatican, is a sovereign state. They're probably the most corrupt company on Earth, and you think we should give them special privileges and tax breaks?

We can't tax the Vatican, it's recognized by the world as a sovereign state, as you said.
Like I said earlier tax the church and then watch us gain access to schools and courts and all other government that we see fit to. You can't have your cake and it it too.

GC

I don't see that you'd do anything you don't do already. And that's the point. At least we'd tax the dollars once before the headed to the
Vatican.

(December 10, 2014 at 7:23 am)robvalue Wrote: It's a business. Just because it includes a made-up element, that shouldn't give it special rights. Any company could make a claim that they are "helping people" in some way and so should be tax exempt.

I agree, any purely charitable section should be exempt. But you cannot make that claim of the whole thing, no way.

Would you want a firm of lawyers who believe in gnomes to get tax breaks? The gnomes make their clients happier.

It's worse than a business, it's a con. It's providing partially fictional services.

You're the one making the claim now a little proof please.
Lawyers sale a product, the church sales nothing and many small churches are in the red by the end of each year. Tax the big ones and the small ones can apply for subsidies. you'e trying to deny the separation of church and state. You do not want us in the public schools and ect. but you want our money, can't have it both ways.