What made you become an atheist?

[Cosmic Ape]

The major turning point was while in church after hurricane Katrina... hearing the pastor spout off some of the most foul shit I've ever heard, and watching the congregation nod in agreement.

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The argument I'd make is that a kid wouldn't come up with a god-tale if someone didn't put it there in the first place. I do agree with your labeling of it as "nothing" rather than atheistic because you do need to be cognitive and mature enough to call yourself an atheist or anything else.

I came up with plenty of fantasies on my own, some of which included 'god-tales'... most of which included at the least forms of demigods.

And I much enjoyed sharing such imaginings with friends and strangers alike.

Kids easily come up with 'god-tales'... and they are plenty often shared with other kids. Enter superstition, example: a chant to a rain god that is closely followed by rain... and you've got the seeds of religion

Yeah thats a good point.

I guess I'd have to expand on what I meant by saying I dont think they would come up with the god-tales we have today and if they did I think that kid would have to be really twisted to come up with the Bible or Quran on his own. Were the fantasy gods you and your friends thought as kids of very different from the gods of the past? like being very kind, non-jealous, peaceful, colorful, loving, involved?

[leo-rcc]

Because i was born as one.

Same here.

[Violet]

I guess I'd have to expand on what I meant by saying I dont think they would come up with the god-tales we have today and if they did I think that kid would have to be really twisted to come up with the Bible or Quran on his own. Were the fantasy gods you and your friends thought as kids of very different from the gods of the past? like being very kind, non-jealous, peaceful, colorful, loving, involved?

Over time original stories become distorted. A man built a small boat on the shore and uses it to escape a flash flood. His own embellishments exaggerate the size and scope of the story. The story is improvised upon by various people for several years. Hundred years later it was a giant boat and a massive flood. Thousand years later it is a massive boat and a global flood and saving 2 of every animal and his family and incest to restore the population and the flood covering the mountains and etc.

Kid's aren't so "innocent" as you make them out to be. Speaking only for myself, the majority I remember are selfish, chaotic, conflicting, surviving, and if the character wasn't my focal point of view: often 'evil'. The circumstances for many would be quite gruesome or sickening, depending on who you talk to.

I don't see why anyone wouldn't come up with the Bible on their own... nor do I see why anyone would. People tell me that it was a cooperative effort, and I don't bother to question it.

[Cyberman]

Over time original stories become distorted. A man built a small boat on the shore and uses it to escape a flash flood. His own embellishments exaggerate the size and scope of the story. The story is improvised upon by various people for several years. Hundred years later it was a giant boat and a massive flood. Thousand years later it is a massive boat and a global flood and saving 2 of every animal and his family and incest to restore the population and the flood covering the mountains and etc.

That's always been my take on the whole communion wafer thing. I can just about swallow a story in which someone - JC in this case - knowing he might not be around much longer, does the whole Last Supper routine and tells his followers to "eat/drink this in remembrance of me". Now I'm not at all convinced that any of this stuff happened but as a story it's plausible on a human level; basically every time his followers ate of the bread, they would remember their former leader. It takes real anally-retentive fanaticism to turn that rather poignant little vignette into complete farce: "No, it actually turns into the actual, genuine flesh of Jesus! And this really becomes blood! It's God Magic! No, you can't test it with your evil Science - why are you persecuting me???"

[Cosmic Ape]

Over time original stories become distorted. A man built a small boat on the shore and uses it to escape a flash flood. His own embellishments exaggerate the size and scope of the story. The story is improvised upon by various people for several years. Hundred years later it was a giant boat and a massive flood. Thousand years later it is a massive boat and a global flood and saving 2 of every animal and his family and incest to restore the population and the flood covering the mountains and etc.

How come you're talking to me as if I'm a theist who didnt know that?....

Kid's aren't so "innocent" as you make them out to be. Speaking only for myself, the majority I remember are selfish, chaotic, conflicting, surviving, and if the character wasn't my focal point of view: often 'evil'. The circumstances for many would be quite gruesome or sickening, depending on who you talk to.

If my kid came up with any idea resembling the Bible, I'd have the child committed tomorrow without question. I dont really care what messed up children could come up with, a totalitarian, jealous, violent, capricious god is not in the imagination of a normal mentally healthy child. It reminds me of the 16 year old girl who just killed a 9 year old girl in Missouri and her callousness reflects whats in religious texts, this is partially a quote from the killer teen "It wasnt so bad after the whole oh my gawh im killing someone feeling, then it was awesome, i slashed her throat, stabbed her and strangled her....k, well im gonna go to church now, lol"

I don't see why anyone wouldn't come up with the Bible on their own... nor do I see why anyone would. People tell me that it was a cooperative effort, and I don't bother to question it.

I never said religious texts werent cooperative, very irrelevant, just like how you felt the need to write about how stories are distorted as if I was arguing against you.. hmm anyway again if my kid came up with that I know I probably failed as a parent because the bible is the worst fucking book I've ever read...and i havnt even started the old testament or the quran yet...

[Doubting Thomas]

I guess that means we all begin life as morons. Fortunately the condition isn't permanent.

Well for those who don't end up being fanatical fundies, anyway.

[Violet]

How come you're talking to me as if I'm a theist who didnt know that?....

I talk to everyone this way. Do I have a reason to treat you differently?

If my kid came up with any idea resembling the Bible, I'd have the child committed tomorrow without question. I dont really care what messed up children could come up with, a totalitarian, jealous, violent, capricious god is not in the imagination of a normal mentally healthy child. It reminds me of the 16 year old girl who just killed a 9 year old girl in Missouri and her callousness reflects whats in religious texts, this is partially a quote from the killer teen "It wasnt so bad after the whole oh my gawh im killing someone feeling, then it was awesome, i slashed her throat, stabbed her and strangled her....k, well im gonna go to church now, lol"

What do you mean by 'committed' in this case? Because if it is what I believe it to mean... that's sick.

Totalitarian characters shouldn't be uncommon given children's perceptions of their parents.

Jealous characters shouldn't be uncommon either, given that most of us just wantwantwantwant at the start. Few enough of us grow out of jealousy to make me strongly question your judgement here.

Violence is the stuff of life, and childhood is simply rife with it. Why it would not be part of a child's imagination is beyond me.

Capriciousness? Ever seen a kid go from crying loudly, to cheering, to screaming, to running, to attacking, to smiling? Happens all the time.

I disagree entirely that any of these are abnormal in a mentally healthy child... nor do I understand why it should matter if they are. They are kids, and if it's one you're caring for: I should expect you to care for them.

I never said religious texts werent cooperative, very irrelevant, just like how you felt the need to write about how stories are distorted as if I was arguing against you.. hmm anyway again if my kid came up with that I know I probably failed as a parent because the bible is the worst fucking book I've ever read...and i havnt even started the old testament or the quran yet...

I'm about the most 'irrelevant' being on this forum. It's irrelevant to respond to me at all. It's irrelevant to get out of bed each morning since we're all going to die eventually.

Thank goodness we don't do things simply because they are relevant.

Storytelling/writing is an art... and appreciation of art is individual. Given the popularity of the Bible... why would you do anything less than encouraging your child? (Or telling them that it's probably going to get them nowhere in life, and loving them if they listen to you or not)

[Cosmic Ape]

If my kid wrote a story as sick and twisted as those religious texts, sure, I'd bring the kid to therapy or a mental hospitial depending on how demented they may be, you're going to sit there and say you'd do nothing about it?. If it's just a kid being a kid and he's not serious or the made up god-story isnt that sick, no biggie, but if the kid generally believes that they heard voices in his head and went schizo or formed some another mental illness from religion (which happens a lot) or the kid thought human/animal sacrifice was ok, women can be honor raped in the right context, and human slavery is ok etc... then it's time for the kid to get a wake up call and get some help. Ok, you find this stuff more normal because you made up gods with your friends and it was probably harmless.. but this goes beyond storytelling and you should know that.

[Violet]

If my kid wrote a story as sick and twisted as those religious texts, sure, I'd bring the kid to therapy or a mental hospitial depending on how demented they may be, you're going to sit there and say you'd do nothing about it?

Yes. Such a story is no reason to bring anyone to a mental hospital or to put someone through therapy. I try to leave those facilities open to those who actually need them... which does not include people who write a story that I don't think is proper for them to have written.

Not that I find anything remotely deplorable about writing anything from war, to religion, to erotica. I would not sit there and do nothing: I would assist in the editing process and see what they can do with it from there.

If it's just a kid being a kid and he's not serious or the made up god-story isnt that sick, no biggie, but if the kid generally believes that they heard voices in his head and went schizo or formed some another mental illness from religion (which happens a lot) or the kid thought human/animal sacrifice was ok, women can be honor raped in the right context, and human slavery is ok etc... then it's time for the kid to get a wake up call and get some help.

Nobody forms a mental illness from religion. Most of the atheists/agnostics/deists here were religious at one point, and are quite rational people now that they know better.

I can show my children images and videos and stories that will change their minds if they think rape is ever okay, or sacrifice is ever okay, or slavery is ever okay. The only wake up call I will ever give anyone is truth, and the truth is that rape is horrible, as is slavery, and sacrificing the unwilling is simply murder.

As their parent: there is probably nobody better to help them than myself... and most of the people who are cost exorbitant fees to see.

Ok, you find this stuff normal because you made up gods with your friends and it was probably harmless.. but this goes beyond storytelling and you should know that.

I find this stuff normal because I've been around many children, teenagers, and adults. I find nothing to contradict that you have outlined but normal human behavior.

[Cosmic Ape]

Well I'm pretty sure you're completely wrong about religion not being able to form mental illnesses, but we'll just agree to disagree here about kids because it wont go anywhere.