realized how lunatics religious people are....

(February 9, 2012 at 12:45 pm)RW_9 Wrote: In reference to the responses of others: everyone is born an atheist.

Nobody is born an atheist. This particular form of justification has always got under my skin. By the same token, nobody is born a theist either.

When you are born you are "a nothing", you know nothing, and you have no beliefs nor disbeliefs. You can't disbelieve something if you have no concept of belief in anything. Atheism is non belief of a particular proposition, that being the existence of god/s.

I would say that I was born atheistic. Was plugged into the societal mindset but it did not stick. Now if I care to put a label to myself it would be atheist.

(February 9, 2012 at 1:12 pm)RW_9 Wrote: I didn't mean "ever since they can remember." I meant all humans are born without religion, but many are raised from birth to believe in one. So for many, ever since they "can remember" they have believed in a religion of some sort - but that is due to their parents. Would it be possible for someone to develop on their own with some set of superstitions? Of course. I am just stating the obvious that humans aren't born hardwired with a religion in their conscious system.

I guess this is something like being born ignorant. At birth you know how to suckle and fuss when you get uncomfortable but that's about it. We have no language so we certainly cannot be aware of any beliefs. I guess that means we all begin life as morons. Fortunately the condition isn't permanent. We have the potential for language and learning so in some sense we weren't so much young morons as we were not fully developed. Any theist may argue here that the god gene lays dormant too so that the babe isn't so much atheist as not fully developed.

I see it pretty much the same way. The god delusion is always there in potential so you can' tell at birth which child will succumb to it and which will make proper sense of it.

(February 12, 2012 at 10:26 am)Norfolk And Chance Wrote: and you have no beliefs nor disbeliefs.

Yes, you would have no beliefs - including a belief in a deity. Thus, atheism. Atheism is nothing more than a lack of belief in a deity/deities. Nowhere did I say that a wittle baby makes a conscious decision to say "there is no god." That is not required for atheism.

(February 12, 2012 at 1:51 pm)RW_9 Wrote:

(February 12, 2012 at 10:26 am)Norfolk And Chance Wrote: and you have no beliefs nor disbeliefs.

Yes, you would have no beliefs - including a belief in a deity. Thus, atheism. Atheism is nothing more than a lack of belief in a deity/deities. Nowhere did I say that a wittle baby makes a conscious decision to say "there is no god." That is not required for atheism.

Careful. Are rocks atheists? I'm pretty sure they have no belief in gods.

(February 12, 2012 at 1:51 pm)RW_9 Wrote:

(February 12, 2012 at 10:26 am)Norfolk And Chance Wrote: and you have no beliefs nor disbeliefs.

Yes, you would have no beliefs - including a belief in a deity. Thus, atheism. Atheism is nothing more than a lack of belief in a deity/deities. Nowhere did I say that a wittle baby makes a conscious decision to say "there is no god." That is not required for atheism.

Non belief of the proposition that there are gods is the be all and end all of atheism.

There has to be a proposal to reject!

Ah, I see the point you guys are making. I'll have to think about it some more. This is the first time since joining the forums I have actually been challenged to rethink something. I am quite pleased.

(February 12, 2012 at 10:26 am)Norfolk And Chance Wrote:

(February 9, 2012 at 12:45 pm)RW_9 Wrote: In reference to the responses of others: everyone is born an atheist.

Nobody is born an atheist. This particular form of justification has always got under my skin. By the same token, nobody is born a theist either.

When you are born you are "a nothing", you know nothing, and you have no beliefs nor disbeliefs. You can't disbelieve something if you have no concept of belief in anything. Atheism is non belief of a particular proposition, that being the existence of god/s.

The argument I'd make is that a kid wouldn't come up with a god-tale if someone didn't put it there in the first place. I do agree with your labeling of it as "nothing" rather than atheistic because you do need to be cognitive and mature enough to call yourself an atheist or anything else.

The major turning point was while in church after hurricane Katrina... hearing the pastor spout off some of the most foul shit I've ever heard, and watching the congregation nod in agreement.

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(February 12, 2012 at 3:30 pm)Cosmic Ape Wrote: The argument I'd make is that a kid wouldn't come up with a god-tale if someone didn't put it there in the first place. I do agree with your labeling of it as "nothing" rather than atheistic because you do need to be cognitive and mature enough to call yourself an atheist or anything else.

I came up with plenty of fantasies on my own, some of which included 'god-tales'... most of which included at the least forms of demigods.

And I much enjoyed sharing such imaginings with friends and strangers alike.

Kids easily come up with 'god-tales'... and they are plenty often shared with other kids. Enter superstition, example: a chant to a rain god that is closely followed by rain... and you've got the seeds of religion