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RE: The Most Explicit Verses on the Godship of Jesus
November 6, 2012 at 12:05 pm
Given that "Isaiah" was speaking to King Ahaz - a monarch who was facing some serious political problems at the time....the Assyrians were coming.
Jews - you remember them, right? It is their religion that you have stolen for your jesus shit, think that the righteous king "Hezekiah" son of Ahaz, is the ruler spoken of. That makes a bit more sense than the rather silly xtian notion.
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RE: The Most Explicit Verses on the Godship of Jesus
November 6, 2012 at 12:07 pm
It's a little like taking the mythology of Star Wars - which happened a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away, remember - and turning selected bits of it into prophecies for Star Trek.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: The Most Explicit Verses on the Godship of Jesus
November 6, 2012 at 12:18 pm
Or discussing the timeline of Zelda Games 
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RE: The Most Explicit Verses on the Godship of Jesus
November 6, 2012 at 12:23 pm
Preferably in the context of Mario or Tetris or something. The one parasitically hijacking the other.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: The Most Explicit Verses on the Godship of Jesus
November 6, 2012 at 6:44 pm
(This post was last modified: November 7, 2012 at 4:44 pm by Rayaan.)
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RE: The Most Explicit Verses on the Godship of Jesus
November 7, 2012 at 1:52 pm
Rayaan Wrote:Yeah, but "I and my Father are one" does not necessarily mean that they are one in substance.
But, when he says "follow me," that doesn't necessarily mean that he is saying that he is God.
Well, those are probably just proper names that were given to Jesus, not his personal names. They don't necessarily mean that he was God himself.
The fact that they called Jesus "Immanuel" doesn't necessarily mean that he was God First, what would necessarily mean that Jesus is God?
Second, to say that these do not necessarily mean that Jesus is God implies that they could mean Jesus is God.
Third, you're making ad hoc arguments against each passage brought up. Even if there isn't a single smoking gun verse (I'm not conceding that - I'm waiting for your response to the first point before considering more passages), one can quite resonably consider the totality of the evidence in reaching a conclusion.
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RE: The Most Explicit Verses on the Godship of Jesus
November 7, 2012 at 4:06 pm
(November 7, 2012 at 1:52 pm)John V Wrote: First, what would necessarily mean that Jesus is God? When a verse doesn't have any other interpretations except that Jesus is God, or that Christians are supposed to worship him.
(November 7, 2012 at 1:52 pm)John V Wrote: Second, to say that these do not necessarily mean that Jesus is God implies that they could mean Jesus is God. Yes, they could mean Jesus is God (Scripture-wise).
(November 7, 2012 at 1:52 pm)John V Wrote: Third, you're making ad hoc arguments against each passage brought up. Even if there isn't a single smoking gun verse (I'm not conceding that - I'm waiting for your response to the first point before considering more passages), one can quite resonably consider the totality of the evidence in reaching a conclusion. Even the totality of the evidence in reaching that conclusion - i.e. that Jesus is God, according to the Bible itself - is not demonstrable, in my opinion.
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RE: The Most Explicit Verses on the Godship of Jesus
November 7, 2012 at 4:40 pm
(This post was last modified: November 7, 2012 at 4:41 pm by John V.)
(November 7, 2012 at 4:06 pm)Rayaan Wrote: When a verse doesn't have any other interpretations except that Jesus is God, or that Christians are supposed to worship him. Yes, I understand what necessarily means, I was looking for examples. Anyway:
John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Colossians 2
8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. 9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; 10 and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power.
Rev 5
13 And every creature which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, I heard saying:
“Blessing and honor and glory and power
Be to Him who sits on the throne,
And to the Lamb, forever and ever!”
I don;t see how else to read these passages.
Quote:Even the totality of the evidence in reaching that conclusion - i.e. that Jesus is God, according to the Bible itself - is not demonstrable, in my opinion.
Yes, I gathered that. There are verses that can be read to indicate that Jesus isn't God. In the end, the conclusion is to some extent opinion.
Note that if you conclude he wasn't god, the next question is: what was he?
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RE: The Most Explicit Verses on the Godship of Jesus
November 7, 2012 at 5:03 pm
(November 7, 2012 at 4:40 pm)John V Wrote: Note that if you conclude he wasn't god, the next question is: what was he? Pretender you're either a jew or a muslim and I think you can answer that, in light of the OT, only.
Pretend you're an atheist and you can extrapolate a bit on the view from jews and muslims.
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RE: The Most Explicit Verses on the Godship of Jesus
November 7, 2012 at 5:22 pm
I love watching Christians defend this position. I think modern Christianity has a terrible interpretation of the bible and they really have to stretch a few verses to try to make Jesus into a God-like figure. You know what Jesus would of said if he was god "I am god!" Why beat around the bush and make people do guess work to come up with some convoluted interpretation?
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