Can the forum's christians see the demons in other people?

[Kirbmarc]

No. It fits with the idea that god created Satan in part so he'd have someone to label as the 'bad guy' for him to protect us from.

Even if it is only in part, it's still pretty "messed up". Creating a bad guy to fight him is something that is done either by clever tyrants or by the mentally insane.

I think that God likely made covenants with Satan as he has with men. We're not privy to them as we don't need to be.

Whenever a rational thinker finds a contradiction in the Christian myths (not a big effort: Christianity is riddled with contradictions) or argues that god behaves more like an insane dictator than the source of all goodness, the apologists always play the card of the "mysterious ways" of their god.

[Brakeman]

Ok, say we two otherwise identical people: John A. and John B.

John A. was an awful, mean, sadistic killer who rejected jesus.
John B. was a otherwise sweet man who could not think clearly because he was under the influence of a horrible demon and was unlucky enough to not have jesus or any other holy man around to drive out the demon, so he died without jesus in his heart.

Both were sent to hell for eternal punishment by the laws of the bible. Is this fair? Is this fair using the "god given sense of right and wrong" that is equal to god's per his own words according to Genesis?

[Darkstar]

I don't know. Neither do you. That doesn't justify a conclusion that Satan was only created for the single purpose noted.

If no other purpose can possibly be found or justified...

Personally, I think that God likely made covenants with Satan as he has with men. We're not privy to them as we don't need to be. Seems arrogant to think that everything revolves around us when we no so little of the angelic beings.

I don't think this 'covenant' is even a vague possibility. You do know what Satan does in Revelation, right? And you know that god can see it coming a mile away, don't you? I guess preemptive genocide only applies to people, and only ones who might do something bad.

[Kirbmarc]

I guess preemptive genocide only applies to people, and only ones who might do something bad.

Mysterious ways, my friend. Mysterious ways.

[Minimalist]

More like Fucked Up Ways.

[Cato]

Let's expand on this a little. God creates Satan, knowing he will turn on him. He allows Satan to cause the fall, and to do a limited number of other things over time. Then, god lets Satan off the leash to show off Jesus. Doesn't this fit well with the idea that god created Satan just so he'd have someone to label as the 'bad guy' for him to protect us from?

No. It fits with the idea that god created Satan in part so he'd have someone to label as the 'bad guy' for him to protect us from.

You're right John V, The Force is much more believable. The Force had midichlorians create the ultimate Jedi from an unfucked woman in the desert (in this case an entire planet) in order to bring balance to The Force. The dude grows up and kills all Jedi except for Yoda (who died of boredom) and his wimpy ass son who couldn't finish the job.

At least Darth Vader could complete a task. Your devil and associated minions are almost as incompetent as your god.

[thesummerqueen]

You're right John V, The Force is much more believable. The Force had midichlorians create the ultimate Jedi from an unfucked woman in the desert (in this case an entire planet) in order to bring balance to The Force. The dude grows up and kills all Jedi except for Yoda (who died of boredom) and his wimpy ass son who couldn't finish the job.

At least Darth Vader could complete a task. Your devil and associated minions are almost as incompetent as your god.

[Drich]

I think what he's saying drich is that because jesus did see possessive demons then "demons or devils" could in that instance control a man's will to do right or wrong. If that is the case, how do you reconcile that to jesus's offer to save everyone, because a man that is truly controlled by the devil is not in a position to accept jesus and save his soul.

Actually no. Look at how 'demons' affected people. Look at the example minie Gave. When the Man was possessed it blinded Him. there are examples of people being muted, crippled, one man was torment by voices, another person was able to predict the future, another was super strong and could not be bound. Demon possession was not devil made me have an affair thing. It seems as if it were Demons having the kind of fun a child would have pulling one wing off of a fly and watch it spin in circles. They were just here to torment and make our lives miserable.

[John V]

If no other purpose can possibly be found or justified...

When you can prove that no other answer can possibly be found, you'll have a point.

---

Ok, say we two otherwise identical people: John A. and John B.

John A. was an awful, mean, sadistic killer who rejected jesus.
John B. was a otherwise sweet man who could not think clearly because he was under the influence of a horrible demon and was unlucky enough to not have jesus or any other holy man around to drive out the demon, so he died without jesus in his heart.

God, being omniscient, knows whether John B would have accepted salvation in the absence of the demon, and can dismiss the demon based on that knowledge, or just save the man in the end despite the lack of an overt confession of faith.

[Strongbad]

God, being omniscient, knows whether John B would have accepted salvation in the absence of the demon, and can dismiss the demon based on that knowledge, or just save the man in the end despite the lack of an overt confession of faith.

And Superman, being super-powerful, can either fly so fast that he makes time go in reverse, or he can just use his laser-beam vision to destroy Lex Luther's bombs.