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RE: Christian argument
June 2, 2013 at 11:06 am
(This post was last modified: June 2, 2013 at 11:08 am by The Grand Nudger.)
The trouble, Drich, is that gods answers designed to tailor fit me (so much for absolutes btw)will have to comprise of a complete denial of christianity to have any weight with me. I couldn't get buddy buddy with your imaginary friend unless the whole christ song and dance was dropped - for starters.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Christian argument
June 2, 2013 at 11:11 am
(June 2, 2013 at 11:06 am)Rhythm Wrote: The trouble, Drich, is that gods answers designed to tailor fit me (so much for absolutes btw)will have to comprise of a complete denial of christianity to have any weight with me. I couldn't get buddy buddy with your imaginary friend unless the whole christ song and dance was dropped - for starters.
Right on. And I would like some say in the play list. (Not a big fan of harp music.) If we agree to come to the celestial party, there may have to be some changes made in the decor as well.
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RE: Christian argument
June 2, 2013 at 11:14 am
(June 1, 2013 at 6:21 pm)apophenia Wrote: It sounds like another example of that pinnacle of Christian thinking, "I know you are, but what am I?"
I think this was more "I'm rubber, you're glue. Whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you."
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
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RE: Christian argument
June 2, 2013 at 11:24 am
(This post was last modified: June 2, 2013 at 12:10 pm by ThomM.)
If you guys remember from my last post, i'm currently debating with a Catholic. He sent me a very long quote from the bible which i will paste down below. Can anyone make sense of the point he is trying to make? I told him I would only answer him if he actually answered any of my questions (which he has completely ignored by the way) Such questions as: What made you believe in God? Why don't you believe in any other of the religions? Why don't you believe in unicorns and fairies ect? But that isn't the point so don't bother answering these questions. Just focus on the message he sent me:
evolution is a farce & you would be of the many to believe nothing came from nothing.
Sorry - but evolution is well supported with LOTS - VOLUMES of actual scientific evidence - much of which ALSO established that "creation" cannot be true as well - YOUR claim fails -without scientific support - and there is NONE. Evolution was proved TRUE by the Catholic Church itself in France during the Grape Blight - when they grafted the stems from the desired varietal grapes to the ROOTS of the grapes varieties that were resistant to disease - proving survival of the fittest - which is EVOLUTION.
To date , there are no scientifically peer-reviewed research articles that disclaim evolution listed in the scientific and medical journal search engine
And to date - there are NO scientifically peer reviewed research articles that accept creation listed as well - IN FACT - there are articles that show that events in the creation story of the bible are factually FALSE>
here's a challenge.
the bible
THe bible is a book of fiction - One needs only read the first few pages to determine that - and the bible was clearly written by HUMANS - and the majority of the people of the world who actually believe in GODS do not agree with YOURS or your statement about the bible
IN addition - since the bible was written BY the religion - use of it to prove your religion amounts to Circular reasoning -the religion is true because WE say so - which is a logical ERROR.
says that only a person filled with the Holy Sprit could discern the bible.
WHOOPEEE - the Harry Potter books say that only Harry can Kill Voldemort and save mankind too. Circular reasoning to support something is worthless - we DO NOT accept the bible statements to be of use. And the use of a fictional fairy tale makes no difference
Provide PROOF of the existence of that "Holy Ghost" from OUTSIDE religious documents.
read below & lets see if an intellect of the evolutionary persuasion could understand.
i guarantee you cant understand it.
& i mean truly understand it.
God doesn't lie,
No proof of the existence of god yet -
read below & see if you can prove Him wrong that only a person filled with the Holy Sprit could discern the bible.
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth.
First Problem - SHOW this to be true
Provide PROOF that the existence if a god is true. Proof that can be tested and verified by EVERYONE on earth and cannot be possibly mean ANYTHING else. THEN show that a god had ANYTHING to do with the creation of life on earth.
For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made.
Sorry - but there is an actual and supported explanation for the existence of the world - and life - and neither involve a god - and they are clearly supported in evidence - yet NO evidence exists for the existence of a god
Worse - that has been accepted by the sect that represent the majority of christians - example From Pope Benedict
"According to the widely accepted scientific account, the universe erupted 15 billion years ago in an explosion called the 'Big Bang' and has been expanding and cooling ever since. Later there gradually emerged the conditions necessary for the formation of atoms, still later the condensation of galaxies and stars, and about 10 billion years later the formation of planets. In our own solar system and on earth (formed about 4.5 billion years ago), the conditions have been favorable to the emergence of life. While there is little consensus among scientists about how the origin of this first microscopic life is to be explained, there is general agreement among them that the first organism dwelt on this planet about 3.5–4 billion years ago. Since it has been demonstrated that all living organisms on earth are genetically related, it is virtually certain that all living organisms have descended from this first organism. Converging evidence from many studies in the physical and biological sciences furnishes mounting support for some theory of evolution to account for the development and diversification of life on earth"
So they are without excuse. For although they knew God,
Sorry - this is a LIE - no god is proven to exist - PROVE OTHERWISE
And until YOU GO - THE REST OF YOUR STATEMENTS WILL BE IGNORED
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RE: Christian argument
June 2, 2013 at 11:24 am
Ahh .. the old rubber/glue fallacy.
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RE: Christian argument
June 2, 2013 at 12:49 pm
I hope that everyone realises that 99% of the time, you won't be able to change the mind of a religious person just by arguing and disproving them. Their mindset is just disgraceful. The best any atheist can hope for when debating with a religious person is that other people see the debate and it brings them off the fence.
'The more I learn about people the more I like my dog'- Mark Twain
'You can have all the faith you want in spirits, and the afterlife, and heaven and hell, but when it comes to this world, don't be an idiot. Cause you can tell me you put your faith in God to put you through the day, but when it comes time to cross the road, I know you look both ways.' - Dr House
“Young earth creationism is essentially the position that all of modern science, 90% of living scientists and 98% of living biologists, all major university biology departments, every major science journal, the American Academy of Sciences, and every major science organization in the world, are all wrong regarding the origins and development of life….but one particular tribe of uneducated, bronze aged, goat herders got it exactly right.” - Chuck Easttom
"If my good friend Doctor Gasparri speaks badly of my mother, he can expect to get punched.....You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others. There is a limit." - Pope Francis on freedom of speech
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RE: Christian argument
June 2, 2013 at 1:38 pm
(This post was last modified: June 2, 2013 at 1:38 pm by Whateverist.)
(June 2, 2013 at 12:49 pm)Rationalman Wrote: I hope that everyone realises that 99% of the time, you won't be able to change the mind of a religious person just by arguing and disproving them. Their mindset is just disgraceful. The best any atheist can hope for when debating with a religious person is that other people see the debate and it brings them off the fence.
Actually I hope for something more. I hope to avoid the farce of such 'debates'. Since there is no reason I know why they should stop believing in gods that only leaves the issue of them believing the bible trumps science. Anyone invested in keeping such a belief in place is way too distracted to hear any good points I may raise so there is really no point. Since I'm fine with theists being theists, I have only time to lose and nothing to gain.
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RE: Christian argument
June 2, 2013 at 2:17 pm
I agree with you, these debates are a farce. Just like it would be for a debate between a geologist and a flat earther, or a holocaust survivor and a holocaust denier.
I'm not fine with theists being theists. Their beliefs have caused more death and suffering than anything on this planet. I also take issue with the way their minds work, their standard of what counts as evidence and their faith
'The more I learn about people the more I like my dog'- Mark Twain
'You can have all the faith you want in spirits, and the afterlife, and heaven and hell, but when it comes to this world, don't be an idiot. Cause you can tell me you put your faith in God to put you through the day, but when it comes time to cross the road, I know you look both ways.' - Dr House
“Young earth creationism is essentially the position that all of modern science, 90% of living scientists and 98% of living biologists, all major university biology departments, every major science journal, the American Academy of Sciences, and every major science organization in the world, are all wrong regarding the origins and development of life….but one particular tribe of uneducated, bronze aged, goat herders got it exactly right.” - Chuck Easttom
"If my good friend Doctor Gasparri speaks badly of my mother, he can expect to get punched.....You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others. There is a limit." - Pope Francis on freedom of speech
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RE: Christian argument
June 2, 2013 at 2:27 pm
(June 2, 2013 at 2:17 pm)Rationalman Wrote: I'm not fine with theists being theists. I also take issue with the way their minds work You need to calm down and mind your own business. You sound very insecure.
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RE: Christian argument
June 2, 2013 at 2:33 pm
(June 2, 2013 at 2:17 pm)Rationalman Wrote: I'm not fine with theists being theists. Their beliefs have caused more death and suffering than anything on this planet. I also take issue with the way their minds work, their standard of what counts as evidence and their faith
Why? If every theist suddenly vowed to never use their religion in the wrong way and followed through with it, would you still not be fine with them being theists?
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
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