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RE: Christian argument
June 2, 2013 at 2:43 pm
(June 2, 2013 at 2:17 pm)Rationalman Wrote: I agree with you, these debates are a farce. Just like it would be for a debate between a geologist and a flat earther, or a holocaust survivor and a holocaust denier.
I'm not fine with theists being theists. Their beliefs have caused more death and suffering than anything on this planet. I also take issue with the way their minds work, their standard of what counts as evidence and their faith
I'm a Christian and proud of it. Fuck off with your bare assertions... 
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RE: Christian argument
June 2, 2013 at 3:13 pm
(This post was last modified: June 2, 2013 at 3:17 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(June 2, 2013 at 2:33 pm)Faith No More Wrote: Why? If every theist suddenly vowed to never use their religion in the wrong way and followed through with it, would you still not be fine with them being theists?
Suddenly? Pretty sure that they already think they're using it "the right way" .......? Who am I to argue, it's their damned cult.
Take our resident islamic terrorism apologists, the "right way" to use their religion is to attack non-believers. Question answered.
Take our resident christian trolls, the "right way" to use their religion is to draft dominionist legislation. Question answered.
(If I left somebodies cult out and they want it included, just gimme a hollar - I promise I got something for ya)
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Christian argument
June 2, 2013 at 3:23 pm
(This post was last modified: June 2, 2013 at 3:31 pm by Bad Wolf.)
(June 2, 2013 at 2:43 pm)catfish Wrote: I'm a Christian and proud of it. Fuck off with your bare assertions...
Wow, a Christian having a go at us for bare assertions, i don't think i need to point out how hypocritical that is seeing as you accept bare assertions for your religion and any point that would benefit it. And what are these bare assertions i'm making exactly?
(June 2, 2013 at 2:33 pm)Faith No More Wrote: Why? If every theist suddenly vowed to never use their religion in the wrong way and followed through with it, would you still not be fine with them being theists?
If their religion affected absolutely nothing in the world and didn't change their behaviour at all then yes I would be fine with them being theists. However this is not the case. Religious beliefs cause wars and conflicts and is a regular excuse for murder and the oppression of women. Even then I'm not sure if I would be OK with theists, they way they think and see the world (in my opinion) is wrong. They want to know how life began and what the purpose of it is but they aren't prepared to work for it. They are scared of not knowing so they just blindly accept their religion. I'm fine with not knowing how the universe began and i'm not arrogant enough to assert that I do know. Also religion teaches blind faith as a virtue rather than something to be stamped out. Basically it teaches you what to think and not how to think.
'The more I learn about people the more I like my dog'- Mark Twain
'You can have all the faith you want in spirits, and the afterlife, and heaven and hell, but when it comes to this world, don't be an idiot. Cause you can tell me you put your faith in God to put you through the day, but when it comes time to cross the road, I know you look both ways.' - Dr House
“Young earth creationism is essentially the position that all of modern science, 90% of living scientists and 98% of living biologists, all major university biology departments, every major science journal, the American Academy of Sciences, and every major science organization in the world, are all wrong regarding the origins and development of life….but one particular tribe of uneducated, bronze aged, goat herders got it exactly right.” - Chuck Easttom
"If my good friend Doctor Gasparri speaks badly of my mother, he can expect to get punched.....You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others. There is a limit." - Pope Francis on freedom of speech
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RE: Christian argument
June 2, 2013 at 3:31 pm
"Their beliefs have caused more death and suffering than anything on this planet"
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RE: Christian argument
June 2, 2013 at 3:35 pm
All the holy wars, all the murdering, rape, slavery and genocide in the bible, the crusades. How much more evidence do you need?
'The more I learn about people the more I like my dog'- Mark Twain
'You can have all the faith you want in spirits, and the afterlife, and heaven and hell, but when it comes to this world, don't be an idiot. Cause you can tell me you put your faith in God to put you through the day, but when it comes time to cross the road, I know you look both ways.' - Dr House
“Young earth creationism is essentially the position that all of modern science, 90% of living scientists and 98% of living biologists, all major university biology departments, every major science journal, the American Academy of Sciences, and every major science organization in the world, are all wrong regarding the origins and development of life….but one particular tribe of uneducated, bronze aged, goat herders got it exactly right.” - Chuck Easttom
"If my good friend Doctor Gasparri speaks badly of my mother, he can expect to get punched.....You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others. There is a limit." - Pope Francis on freedom of speech
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RE: Christian argument
June 2, 2013 at 3:55 pm
(June 2, 2013 at 3:35 pm)Rationalman Wrote: All the holy wars, all the murdering, rape, slavery and genocide in the bible, the crusades. How much more evidence do you need?
All of it, not just a biased one-sided tallying of your so-called evidence.
Then I want proof that they all were caused by your presumed reason and not other things like greed, pride and anger...
.
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RE: Christian argument
June 2, 2013 at 4:20 pm
What presumed reasons? All of this evidence i'm referring to is caused by religion. I don't care about the reasons why they did it.
So you are suggesting that the crusades weren't caused by religion? Or that they even happened?
Or that all the bad stuff in the bible was not because of religion?
They are evidence of themselves
'The more I learn about people the more I like my dog'- Mark Twain
'You can have all the faith you want in spirits, and the afterlife, and heaven and hell, but when it comes to this world, don't be an idiot. Cause you can tell me you put your faith in God to put you through the day, but when it comes time to cross the road, I know you look both ways.' - Dr House
“Young earth creationism is essentially the position that all of modern science, 90% of living scientists and 98% of living biologists, all major university biology departments, every major science journal, the American Academy of Sciences, and every major science organization in the world, are all wrong regarding the origins and development of life….but one particular tribe of uneducated, bronze aged, goat herders got it exactly right.” - Chuck Easttom
"If my good friend Doctor Gasparri speaks badly of my mother, he can expect to get punched.....You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others. There is a limit." - Pope Francis on freedom of speech
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RE: Christian argument
June 2, 2013 at 4:24 pm
Allrighty then, do you have a tally of "religious" vs "atheistic" deaths?
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RE: Christian argument
June 2, 2013 at 4:27 pm
(June 2, 2013 at 3:13 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Suddenly? Pretty sure that they already think they're using it "the right way" .......? Who am I to argue, it's their damned cult.
I know, I know. It was a hypothetical question to get at the root of what bothers him. I realized the problems with it as I was typing, but I didn't think it prudent to go into them.
(June 2, 2013 at 3:23 pm)Rationalman Wrote: If their religion affected absolutely nothing in the world and didn't change their behaviour at all then yes I would be fine with them being theists. However this is not the case. Religious beliefs cause wars and conflicts and is a regular excuse for murder and the oppression of women.
I know they do, and I know my question wasn't a realistic one. I think it's important, however, to differentiate between a person's beliefs and their actions. Sure, beliefs influence actions, but they don't necessarily have to.
Rationalman Wrote:Even then I'm not sure if I would be OK with theists, they way they think and see the world (in my opinion) is wrong. They want to know how life began and what the purpose of it is but they aren't prepared to work for it. They are scared of not knowing so they just blindly accept their religion. I'm fine with not knowing how the universe began and i'm not arrogant enough to assert that I do know. Also religion teaches blind faith as a virtue rather than something to be stamped out. Basically it teaches you what to think and not how to think.
I think you are underestimating the ability of the human mind to hold conflicting viewpoints. For instance, my father has a Ph.D. in organic chemistry, was hired by one of the world's largest chemical companies to work in their research department right out of graduate school, accepts evolution, and even owns the book "Climbing Mount Improbable" by Richard Dawkins. He raised me to value empirical and verifiable evidence, and he taught me that the scientific method was the best way to discern the truth. Yet he is a Christian, and it never once affected his job as a scientist.
As long as someone holds to the methods of determining what is real and what isn't that is valued by science, who are we to judge them for failing to utilize that method in one aspect of their life that gives them sense and purpose?
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
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RE: Christian argument
June 2, 2013 at 4:43 pm
(June 2, 2013 at 4:24 pm)catfish Wrote: Allrighty then, do you have a tally of "religious" vs "atheistic" deaths?
Sorry what? Did you just say atheistic deaths?
No one has ever been killed in the name of atheism. No wars have ever been started in the name of atheism. No one has ever been raped, tortured, murdered or enslaved in the name of atheism.
There is no need for a tally. Millions of people have suffered and been killed by religion. No one has been harmed by atheism.
'The more I learn about people the more I like my dog'- Mark Twain
'You can have all the faith you want in spirits, and the afterlife, and heaven and hell, but when it comes to this world, don't be an idiot. Cause you can tell me you put your faith in God to put you through the day, but when it comes time to cross the road, I know you look both ways.' - Dr House
“Young earth creationism is essentially the position that all of modern science, 90% of living scientists and 98% of living biologists, all major university biology departments, every major science journal, the American Academy of Sciences, and every major science organization in the world, are all wrong regarding the origins and development of life….but one particular tribe of uneducated, bronze aged, goat herders got it exactly right.” - Chuck Easttom
"If my good friend Doctor Gasparri speaks badly of my mother, he can expect to get punched.....You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others. There is a limit." - Pope Francis on freedom of speech
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