The Lie of the True Christian™

[Angrboda]

I can see for miles and miles. Nothing lasts, nothing is finished, and nothing is perfect. This too shall pass. All is Maya.



For people who can't see beyond the end of their nose, their nose then becomes the whole world.

[Drich]

How does one who displays a competent grasp of grammar misspell peace three times?

That is why I hate misspelling things so bad, because it derails discussions and proves posts to be wholly invalid because, after all, if they were intelligent they wouldn't misspell something so damn easy. But, you're right, that was very shitty of me. I type fast and spell checker didn't catch it, again, i appologze to all.

Doh! speled Appologise rong.

I have found if a misspelling derails a topic then generally speaking, the person who points out the misspelling is looking for an easy out, and is probably in over their head. It's as if they think if can discredit the messenger somehow the content of the message is no longer valid.

[thesummerqueen]

I have found if a misspelling derails a topic then generally speaking, the person who points out the misspelling is looking for an easy out, and is probably in over their head. It's as if they think if can discredit the messenger somehow the content of the message is no longer valid.

Actually, some of us just don't give a fuck about the numbnuttery and the spelling errors irritate us on a deep level.

[Drich]

lol
There's that filthy apologist.


No, for real though, this is the response I expected from you Dich. The one and ONLY way to get around this biblical lie of "peace that passeth all understanding" is to discredit those who claim they were true believers.

Then by all means tell me what you think a 'true believer' is. Because it seems as if your confusing a 'true believer' with a sincere believer.

Unfortunately for you, its merely your word against theirs, and I'm inclined to believe the person who actually HAD the feelings rather than the person that has an agenda to defend a book of lies.

This statement is why I think you have confused the terms. A 'True believer' is not a title we give ourselves. It is awarded to those in whom Christ welcomes into Heaven. A Sincere believer is someone who truly believes that they believe or did at one time believed. Christ in Mt. 7 says not all who believe this will be welcomed into Heaven. On that day He will say "Away with you evil doer I never knew you."
Which means not all who 'believe they believe' Truly to according to Christ.

It's really your same old argument isn't it? "Well, he wasn't a TRUE CHRISTIAN ... because I say so."

If this was my 'same old arguement' then you would think by now you would know the difference between those who Christ deems 'followers' and those who claim the title for themselves.

Of course, it's problematic for you because it happens all the time.

Again not in the least as Christ Himself points out there are those who think they believe, and do all sorts of things in His name that never know God.

[xpastor]

I don't think the alternatives are are properly chosen in this poll. Both of the last two apply to me.

Yes, I felt some level of peace for many years as a practising Christian. It may have been based on an illusion but I felt it.

There came a time when I experienced a great deal of cognitive dissonance around my Christian faith. I was very agitated and felt anything but peaceful in those days. As a non-Christian I now feel much more at peace than I did then.

I find it difficult to compare the depth of peace which I felt as a Christian with the peace I now feel as a humanist. To me the comparison is almost meaningless since I now recognize my former Christian beliefs as illusory.

[Bad Writer]

I strove for inner peace with Mormonism, but the turmoil was surface deep and couldn't help but bubble upwards on a daily basis. The worst was seeing how my beliefs affected others...that in and of itself made me feel crappy about the whole mess.

[Godlesspanther]

Then by all means tell me what you think a 'true believer' is. Because it seems as if your confusing a 'true believer' with a sincere believer.

No -- you are the one who is attempting to make a distention between a "true believer" and a "sincere believer" where there is none. If there were such a distinction then prove it. Can a true believer be tested? Will it show up in a blood test? An MRI? EEG? Biopsy? Lie detecter? MMPI? Is there some way to determine conclusively who is or is not a true believer?

I didn't think so.

This statement is why I think you have confused the terms. A 'True believer' is not a title we give ourselves. It is awarded to those in whom Christ welcomes into Heaven. A Sincere believer is someone who truly believes that they believe or did at one time believed. Christ in Mt. 7 says not all who believe this will be welcomed into Heaven. On that day He will say "Away with you evil doer I never knew you."
Which means not all who 'believe they believe' Truly to according to Christ.

Again -- you are not really saying anything. Evidence or shut up.

It's really your same old argument isn't it? "Well, he wasn't a TRUE CHRISTIAN ... because I say so."

If this was my 'same old arguement' then you would think by now you would know the difference between those who Christ deems 'followers' and those who claim the title for themselves.

Again not in the least as Christ Himself points out there are those who think they believe, and do all sorts of things in His name that never know God.

And again you still provide no possible way to determine the difference in the real world. I have no choice but to say that there is no difference between the two. It is an arbitrary distinction.

This is a desperate attempt to maintain the 'no true xtian' fallacy because ex-xtians are a genuine threat to your faith.

Yes -- it could happen to YOU, Drich.

Eat it.

[Raven]

FiniteImmortal said:
Any group trying to legislate or present "inner piece" other that what is authentic and relevant to our lives, should be suspect.
As an adult, the last few years as I have searched honestly for hope to our sometimes shitty lives, I have had that same scooped-up feeling, even though things still sucked, there was hope. But to be complete there needs to be an intellectual component, not just a whimsical emotion component to bring it all together.

I agree wholeheartedly with what you said there. The way I see it now the deal is that whatever peace we find we must provide for ourselves, however it is that we can find it for themselves. Some might find it by being well-grounded in their community and family. Not everybody can do that, for whatever reasons and needs must find another way for themselves. For someone like that perhaps taking off for the sticks and connecting with nature does the trick. For me what works best is taking things apart and putting things together, making stuff from scratch out of whatever is around, stuff like that. I feel connected to the whole business, to a far greater extent then religion ever did.

house of cantor said: Wait a f'in minute - you're trying to equate Pentecostal with peaceful?

Got that right. Not much that's peaceful about having a hysterical seizure on the floor while being surrounded by a bunch of religious fanatics screaming Hallelujah! It's the Spirit!

Godlesspanther wrote: Ex-Christians are a very real threat to believers. They are living proof that anyone can lose his/her faith. That includes people like Drich

Again, got that right. I think Drippy would rather lose his coglione than his faith.

When I gave up religion it was the best thing that ever happened to me, second only to my wife. Drippy will probably say that I never really had any faith or I would never have lost it. (Or maybe not) No, matter. What I do know is that around these parts the term "true believer" is an epithet, never a compliment. It refers to someone given to fanaticism of the most unyielding, irrational kind. The term "sincere believer", on the other hand is not at all a term of opprobrium, simply a statement of observed fact about someone. It means what it sounds like it means, nothing more.

xpastor said: There came a time when I experienced a great deal of cognitive dissonance around my Christian faith. I was very agitated and felt anything but peaceful in those days. As a non-Christian I now feel much more at peace than I did then

Could not have said it better myself.

[Cinjin]

Then by all means tell me what you think a 'true believer' is. Because it seems as if your confusing a 'true believer' with a sincere believer.

Greasy semantics sir. No difference where this argument is concerned. If you look up the word sincere in a thesaurus you will find the word true.

This statement is why I think you have confused the terms. A 'True believer' is not a title we give ourselves. It is awarded to those in whom Christ welcomes into Heaven. A Sincere believer is someone who truly believes that they believe or did at one time believed. Christ in Mt. 7 says not all who believe this will be welcomed into Heaven. On that day He will say "Away with you evil doer I never knew you."
Which means not all who 'believe they believe' Truly to according to Christ.

This is just sophistry. You're desperately trying to explain away why so many people don't feel this unfathomable inner peace. These preachers/parishioners who have left the faith were not non-believers. By their own testimony, they were legitimate in every sense of the word and YOU have the nerve to simply write them off so that your primitive scribblings remain "true."

If this was my 'same old arguement' then you would think by now you would know the difference between those who Christ deems 'followers' and those who claim the title for themselves.

Well, to play by your rules than, I don't think for a moment that you're a legitimate follower of Christ. Many of the things you say are anti-Biblical and I know many fundamentalists who would disagree with you. You may be sincere but you are definitely NOT a True Christian™, and since Jesus is the only one that can supposedly bestow this honor, I'm afraid you wont be finding out if you're going to heaven until it's too late to change. Do you think that's fair of me to say?

Of course, it's problematic for you because it happens all the time.

Again not in the least as Christ Himself points out there are those who think they believe, and do all sorts of things in His name that never know God.

This greasy rhetoric does not change the fact that YOU are not the decider of who is and who is not a True Christian™ and even if you were correct about the occasional EX-believer, you sure as hell couldn't make this argument for the hundreds of thousands that never feel the kind of peace that your holy Babble promises.

[Raven]

Ripped him a new one, Cinnie. Drippy must look like a swiss cheese by now.