Conspiracy Theories

[fr0d0]

You miss my point - let me re-phrase - the most religious (re Christianity) but the most incredibly spiritually bankrupt place on earth... is the jist of the comment by Peter Owen Jones http://www.bbc.co.uk/80faiths/locations/...rica.shtml

[tavarish]

You miss my point - let me re-phrase - the most religious (re Christianity) but the most incredibly spiritually bankrupt place on earth... is the jist of the comment by Peter Owen Jones http://www.bbc.co.uk/80faiths/locations/...rica.shtml

Define spiritually bankrupt. Does that mean goes against what you believe to be spiritually correct?

What are you arguing? The U.S. is by far the most influential country in the world (economically, politically, militarily)
Most of our population are Christian, we have Christian leaders.

http://socyberty.com/issues/worlds-most-...countries/

For you to call it a cesspit when it is a very clear indicator of the behaviors of those in your religion is just obtuse. Or will you make the assessment that they're not "real" Christians?

[fr0d0]

Well I've said what constitutes belief and faith. Of course I think it's serious error to hold to creationism. But then the US figures aren't so different to the UK if you un-spin the figures, and I know what's true for the UK.

By spiritually bankrupt - believing Peter Owen Jones's summation, which I have no reason not to, it seems clear that there is a huge element of seriously fucked up people and religious practice that he, and yes I consider very spiritually incorrect.

I see very little that's 'Christian' about the US. I see selfishness and greed personified if anything, and yes, that's anti Christ. I don't care what you say you are, I take the evidence.

[tackattack]

I would agree that American's focus on captiolism and gluttony is sheer proof of anti-christian teachings. To find the deeply religious in a survey I would try asking everyone what are all 10 commandments and the seven deadly sins. and examples of each. Profession of a considered mainstream idea does not constitute honest understanding of said ideals or teachings. When governments serve their self or their people who elected them they can not, by definition, be following the teachings of Christianit. Christianity teaches to be in the world and not of the world. I don't know why I chimed in with political view I hate politics.. ignore.

[Pippy]

The most important thing I take about the anti-christ is that he will not identify himself. The anti-christ, or the epitome of evil as symbol, will pretend to be the Christ. So evil will masquerade as goodness and holiness, but it will be the opposite of such. This is the dichotomy I see in America. They say they are a "Christian"nation, and a lot of secular people chagrin the whole country as some kind of "Christian" nation. I don't think the Americans are good examples of the tenements of Christianity, and that they are acting against the teachings of their own belief systems at best.

I love the philosophy of human nature, and the mythological and theological mechanisms for the dissemination of sacred or occult information. The Anti-Christ is a very good story, a good tale or tool with which to try to conceive of human evil and it's place in our reality. As a non-Christian I can enjoy understanding this allegory, you don't have to beleive to understand the method and mechanisms...

Thanks.

[tavarish]

Well I've said what constitutes belief and faith. Of course I think it's serious error to hold to creationism. But then the US figures aren't so different to the UK if you un-spin the figures, and I know what's true for the UK.

I gave you statistics in the other thread.

By spiritually bankrupt - believing Peter Owen Jones's summation, which I have no reason not to, it seems clear that there is a huge element of seriously fucked up people and religious practice that he, and yes I consider very spiritually incorrect.

Have you lived in America? Wouldn't it be a bit judgemental to make a blanket statement like that? I thought Jesus taught against doing that very thing.

I see very little that's 'Christian' about the US. I see selfishness and greed personified if anything, and yes, that's anti Christ. I don't care what you say you are, I take the evidence.

As we all know, selfishness and greed are isolated in the United States of America. Nothing greedy or selfish has ever happened anywhere else in the world. I have to wear 2 belts when I go outside because these greedy assholes will take your pants when you walk out the door, let me tell you.

Have you ever lived here to be making such a statement?

---

I would agree that American's focus on captiolism and gluttony is sheer proof of anti-christian teachings.

Capitalism is our socioeconomic system. It has nothing to do with religious beliefs, nor should it. Capitalism does not equal gluttony, and is the cornerstone of nearly every industrialized nation.

Anti-christian is such a vague term that it's not worth mentioning. Why not go after the middle east for its anti-christian teachings? Believe me when I say Christianity is a formidable force in this country. Whether or not you agree with what they're teaching is another issue. I don't agree with Christianity, does that make me a gluttonous capitalist?

To find the deeply religious in a survey I would try asking everyone what are all 10 commandments and the seven deadly sins. and examples of each. Profession of a considered mainstream idea does not constitute honest understanding of said ideals or teachings. When governments serve their self or their people who elected them they can not, by definition, be following the teachings of Christianit. Christianity teaches to be in the world and not of the world. I don't know why I chimed in with political view I hate politics.. ignore.

That's a crap survey. I'm not religious and I know the 10 commandments and 7 deadly sins by heart. It's a matter of knowledge on the subject, and not necessarily a spiritual connection. is it possible to have a connection with God and now know the 10 commandments by your merit? What about the ones who know the 10 commandments, yet willingly violate them?

Governments are there to serve their constituents. Politics is a dirty business, but they need to maintain the status quo to be re-elected another term. Christianity is the status quo, and the country refuses to elect anyone who isn't in line with at least some of their religious ideals. The country follows representative democracy, which is definitely not a Christian teaching, because that would allow for dissent, and no church in the world needs that.

What do you mean "of the world and not of the world".

"And the Lord God said, For you are to be black and white, up and down, hot and cold, of the world and not of the world, and thus proclaimed that he was an apple and not an apple"

Makes no sense y0.

[fr0d0]

I give my opinion of those statistics given similar statistics and in depth knowledge of facts which apply to my own experience.

I haven't been to America. I directly related an opinion of someone who made the study in America. I presume I have the right to do this? Of course there is good and bad everywhere. I don't discriminate against non Christians. That program was an exploration of 80 faiths. Christianity, especially the US flavour, came out very badly. With the US being such a focal point of all that is desirable in western culture, it's flaws are most visible too. What the summation really addresses is the western model which is found to be seriously lacking.

[tavarish]

I give my opinion of those statistics given similar statistics and in depth knowledge of facts which apply to my own experience.

I haven't been to America. I directly related an opinion of someone who made the study in America. I presume I have the right to do this?

You agreed with an an opinion of someone who also does not live in America, and discounted the opinion of a person who does, and has spoken to many American Christians and has been one for much of his life. It's mostly moderates, just like anywhere else in the world.

This is confirmation bias. You've made a decision and you pick and choose what evidence you can make fit.

I'm not advocating Christianity in America. Shit, I'd like it gone more than anyone, but I recognize what you are doing is intellectually dishonest and willfully ignorant.

Of course there is good and bad everywhere. I don't discriminate against non Christians. That program was an exploration of 80 faiths. Christianity, especially the US flavour, came out very badly. With the US being such a focal point of all that is desirable in western culture, it's flaws are most visible too. What the summation really addresses is the western model which is found to be seriously lacking.

You do realize your religion adheres to this western model and does not operate isolated from everyone, correct? You'd be crazy to think that the same type of batshit insanity can't be found in your own backyard.

[tackattack]

My point was there should be no claiming of following a doctrine if you have no knowledge of it. I'm sure there is a much higher percentage of atheists that know the teachings of Christianity than Christians. They don't profess their faith. You can't have a survey where you're asking someone to classify themselves without at least a small question of qualification.

I never said capitalism = gluttony.. reread I said AND. I'm not sure of the statistics but I'm sure we're still number 1 or 2 in obesity per capita. I'm pretty sure one of our chief expenditures is porn or fast-food. I'm pretty sure capitalism still breeds greed and corruption, not overeating. Capitalism contributes to societies values as does religion and I was pointing out the opposite nature of each (or similar in some cases) Capitalism is great in moderation and with controls. Look you got me ranting on politics... I hate politics ... I'm stayinf out of this thread.

Oh and I mistyped it was," in the world and not of the world."

[tavarish]

My point was there should be no claiming of following a doctrine if you have no knowledge of it. I'm sure there is a much higher percentage of atheists that know the teachings of Christianity than Christians. They don't profess their faith. You can't have a survey where you're asking someone to classify themselves without at least a small question of qualification.

There are people that believe Christ died for them, go to Church, but have never picked up a Bible in their lives because they believe what is told to them in sermons. Do you discount them as being unqualified? Would some regard YOU as being unqualified to make such an assessment?

I still find it funny that every religious person thinks every other religious person has it wrong. High five for being self righteous.

I never said capitalism = gluttony.. reread I said AND. I'm not sure of the statistics but I'm sure we're still number 1 or 2 in obesity per capita. I'm pretty sure one of our chief expenditures is porn or fast-food. I'm pretty sure capitalism still breeds greed and corruption, not overeating. Capitalism contributes to societies values as does religion and I was pointing out the opposite nature of each (or similar in some cases) Capitalism is great in moderation and with controls. Look you got me ranting on politics... I hate politics ... I'm stayinf out of this thread.

Oh and I mistyped it was," in the world and not of the world."

Actually our largest expenditures are on healthcare and military. Capitalism breeds all types of things, but it is not primarily a greed machine. It is meant solely as a means to make individuals more prosperous, and in turn, make the country more productive. Although we are in tough economic times, our country did not go bankrupt because we learned a few things about safeguarding after the great depression. I understand that capitalism has an affect on society, but it was never meant to be an authority on anything moral. That was more for societies to figure out for themselves.

I do agree that we have a large problem with obesity though.