Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
RE: Christians : my problem with Christianity, some questions.
March 28, 2015 at 7:06 am
(March 27, 2015 at 7:17 pm)pocaracas Wrote: Cool reply... reminds me of what my wife has said on the subject (she's catholic).
But I still find the part where you base it in the qur'an a bit sketchy... was the qur'an not written by people?
If got wants you to acknowledge its existence, and it knows very well that a man-made book is prone to carry lies, then it wouldn't rely on such a book to tell people about itself. Nor should it rely on "oral tradition", even more fallible.
Much less on indoctrination.
Bar those methods of letting people know about the god, and, in our reality, you're not left with much, huh?
God itself is sort of absent.
Why should I worry about a non-evident after-life, when my very evident life is so wonderful and in need of my attention?
Now... considering there is some sort of after-life, if I ignore the christian god, while I'm alive, but believe in the islamic god... then I may be in the wrong and end up with a christian after-life where their god is mad at me for not listening to the right people.
And repeat for pretty much every other after-life belief mankind has ever had... and ever will have, or may have.
And it brings us back to "people".
People are the conveyors of the message and that is very very sub-optimal.... considering the nature and possible consequences of such a message.
I'd expect god itself to provide the message, directly and unambiguously... instead... we get what we know we have...
Something that looks made by men, for men, with men... not very convincing for me.
But there's tons of people that find it convincing... oh well...
Christianity and Islam do look-alike in many cases, it's the same religion after all, though like many Muslims, Christians too fell to believe in their "Hadith" of some saints who talked lies & shook hands with rome to produce an empire's version of the religion ; add to the that the books of saints & followers of Jesus who turned mad from the roman torture & prosecution, making them write false books.
-God is not absent, he's everywhere around you yet you can't see the marks of his work, because you still, until today, didn't look too carefully. Never asked yourself enough "what if"s ?
Looking at the sky is enough an evidence, it's a very general argument that is usually called "ambiguous" ; but it all I can provide, look at your body, the blessing of site you possess, date back to before evolution, who made your body capable to evolve anyhow ? the rain, the colors of fruits, everything.
-God doesn't like people with ego. That's why, it's always a prophet from mankind & a book ; this verse specifically is about your point :
( 31 ) And they said, "Why was this Qur'an not sent down upon a great man from [one of] the two cities?"
( 32 ) Do they distribute the mercy of your Lord? It is We who have apportioned among them their livelihood in the life of this world and have raised some of them above others in degrees [of rank] that they may make use of one another for service. But the mercy of your Lord is better than whatever they accumulate. http://quran.ksu.edu.sa/index.php?l=en#a...rans=en_sh
Eventually, the message would come with a common, usual guy with a book, if the person broke the ego and gave it a read, with real observation of nature, along with honest calling to god, the person shall see.
-About why worry about judgement day, because this is not a good life. It's short, it ends quickly, you're threatened with sickness or born handicapped, humans kill over food & natural recourses. At any moment, the tide might change, and you always know the end : you'll die. an infinite, headache-free heaven becomes becomes a nice revelation.
-who do we think we are, to demand that god comes by himself ? didn't he create earth ? the heavens ? put signs there, sun, moon, humans, a baby deer being born ? enough evidence that is.
RE: Christians : my problem with Christianity, some questions.
March 28, 2015 at 7:14 am
(March 28, 2015 at 7:06 am)AtlasS2 Wrote:
(March 27, 2015 at 7:17 pm)pocaracas Wrote: Cool reply... reminds me of what my wife has said on the subject (she's catholic).
But I still find the part where you base it in the qur'an a bit sketchy... was the qur'an not written by people?
If got wants you to acknowledge its existence, and it knows very well that a man-made book is prone to carry lies, then it wouldn't rely on such a book to tell people about itself. Nor should it rely on "oral tradition", even more fallible.
Much less on indoctrination.
Bar those methods of letting people know about the god, and, in our reality, you're not left with much, huh?
God itself is sort of absent.
Why should I worry about a non-evident after-life, when my very evident life is so wonderful and in need of my attention?
Now... considering there is some sort of after-life, if I ignore the christian god, while I'm alive, but believe in the islamic god... then I may be in the wrong and end up with a christian after-life where their god is mad at me for not listening to the right people.
And repeat for pretty much every other after-life belief mankind has ever had... and ever will have, or may have.
And it brings us back to "people".
People are the conveyors of the message and that is very very sub-optimal.... considering the nature and possible consequences of such a message.
I'd expect god itself to provide the message, directly and unambiguously... instead... we get what we know we have...
Something that looks made by men, for men, with men... not very convincing for me.
But there's tons of people that find it convincing... oh well...
Christianity and Islam do look-alike in many cases, it's the same religion after all, though like many Muslims, Christians too fell to believe in their "Hadith" of some saints who talked lies & shook hands with rome to produce an empire's version of the religion ; add to the that the books of saints & followers of Jesus who turned mad from the roman torture & prosecution, making them write false books.
-God is not absent, he's everywhere around you yet you can't see the marks of his work, because you still, until today, didn't look too carefully. Never asked yourself enough "what if"s ?
Looking at the sky is enough an evidence, it's a very general argument that is usually called "ambiguous" ; but it all I can provide, look at your body, the blessing of site you possess, date back to before evolution, who made your body capable to evolve anyhow ? the rain, the colors of fruits, everything.
-God doesn't like people with ego. That's why, it's always a prophet from mankind & a book ; this verse specifically is about your point :
( 31 ) And they said, "Why was this Qur'an not sent down upon a great man from [one of] the two cities?"
( 32 ) Do they distribute the mercy of your Lord? It is We who have apportioned among them their livelihood in the life of this world and have raised some of them above others in degrees [of rank] that they may make use of one another for service. But the mercy of your Lord is better than whatever they accumulate. http://quran.ksu.edu.sa/index.php?l=en#a...rans=en_sh
Eventually, the message would come with a common, usual guy with a book, if the person broke the ego and gave it a read, with real observation of nature, along with honest calling to god, the person shall see.
-About why worry about judgement day, because this is not a good life. It's short, it ends quickly, you're threatened with sickness or born handicapped, humans kill over food & natural recourses. At any moment, the tide might change, and you always know the end : you'll die. an infinite, headache-free heaven becomes becomes a nice revelation.
-who do we think we are, to demand that god comes by himself ? didn't he create earth ? the heavens ? put signs there, sun, moon, humans, a baby deer being born ? enough evidence that is.
Well, if God created us in his own image, then I am not impressed. If he created us and wanted to control us, why did he create our brain, an organ that has the capacity to evolve. Surely it would have been counterproductive for him to create people who were capable of thinking for themselves and being able to ask the questions that we ask today.
RE: Christians : my problem with Christianity, some questions.
March 28, 2015 at 7:22 am
(March 28, 2015 at 7:06 am)AtlasS2 Wrote:
(March 27, 2015 at 7:17 pm)pocaracas Wrote: Cool reply... reminds me of what my wife has said on the subject (she's catholic).
But I still find the part where you base it in the qur'an a bit sketchy... was the qur'an not written by people?
If got wants you to acknowledge its existence, and it knows very well that a man-made book is prone to carry lies, then it wouldn't rely on such a book to tell people about itself. Nor should it rely on "oral tradition", even more fallible.
Much less on indoctrination.
Bar those methods of letting people know about the god, and, in our reality, you're not left with much, huh?
God itself is sort of absent.
Why should I worry about a non-evident after-life, when my very evident life is so wonderful and in need of my attention?
Now... considering there is some sort of after-life, if I ignore the christian god, while I'm alive, but believe in the islamic god... then I may be in the wrong and end up with a christian after-life where their god is mad at me for not listening to the right people.
And repeat for pretty much every other after-life belief mankind has ever had... and ever will have, or may have.
And it brings us back to "people".
People are the conveyors of the message and that is very very sub-optimal.... considering the nature and possible consequences of such a message.
I'd expect god itself to provide the message, directly and unambiguously... instead... we get what we know we have...
Something that looks made by men, for men, with men... not very convincing for me.
But there's tons of people that find it convincing... oh well...
Christianity and Islam do look-alike in many cases, it's the same religion after all, though like many Muslims, Christians too fell to believe in their "Hadith" of some saints who talked lies & shook hands with rome to produce an empire's version of the religion ; add to the that the books of saints & followers of Jesus who turned mad from the roman torture & prosecution, making them write false books.
HEHE... christians would say something different...
I see your point, and also see something similar about the muslim prophet and writers of the qur'an and hadiths.
(March 28, 2015 at 7:06 am)AtlasS2 Wrote: -God is not absent, he's everywhere around you yet you can't see the marks of his work, because you still, until today, didn't look too carefully. Never asked yourself enough "what if"s ?
If it requires a "what if?" Then,... what if not?
(March 28, 2015 at 7:06 am)AtlasS2 Wrote: Looking at the sky is enough an evidence, it's a very general argument that is usually called "ambiguous" ; but it all I can provide, look at your body, the blessing of site you possess, date back to before evolution, who made your body capable to evolve anyhow ? the rain, the colors of fruits, everything.
Everything is beautiful, some of it deadly.
That's no evidence of a design, but more of cooperative evolution.
(March 28, 2015 at 7:06 am)AtlasS2 Wrote: -God doesn't like people with ego. That's why, it's always a prophet from mankind & a book ; this verse specifically is about your point :
( 31 ) And they said, "Why was this Qur'an not sent down upon a great man from [one of] the two cities?"
( 32 ) Do they distribute the mercy of your Lord? It is We who have apportioned among them their livelihood in the life of this world and have raised some of them above others in degrees [of rank] that they may make use of one another for service. But the mercy of your Lord is better than whatever they accumulate. http://quran.ksu.edu.sa/index.php?l=en#a...rans=en_sh
Eventually, the message would come with a common, usual guy with a book, if the person broke the ego and gave it a read, with real observation of nature, along with honest calling to god, the person shall see.
I told you they made you think that was the way it had to be...
But it shouldn't be.
Why would god not like people with an ego? Didn't this god make those people with egos in the first place? (if we go by the tale)
I would think that the prophets do not like people with an ego and skeptics, for these undermine the prophets' claims.
Think about it...
(March 28, 2015 at 7:06 am)AtlasS2 Wrote: -About why worry about judgement day, because this is not a good life. It's short, it ends quickly, you're threatened with sickness or born handicapped, humans kill over food & natural recourses. At any moment, the tide might change, and you always know the end : you'll die. an infinite, headache-free heaven becomes becomes a nice revelation.
Wishful thinking about what comes after death is just that, you know?
I'd like it very much for there to be a heaven, a place where my conscious self could go on and on and on.... but in this world, the only world I'm aware of, that self will disappear into what it was prior to birth/conception. That's is the one thing we can be sure of.
Wishful thinking is just that and we should be aware of that... instead, lots of people live as if what they wish for was real... do you think that's right?
(March 28, 2015 at 7:06 am)AtlasS2 Wrote: -who do we think we are, to demand that god comes by himself ? didn't he create earth ? the heavens ? put signs there, sun, moon, humans, a baby deer being born ? enough evidence that is.
Did he create them?
How would we know?
Through those faulty , anti-ego, prophets?
RE: Christians : my problem with Christianity, some questions.
March 28, 2015 at 7:43 am
(March 28, 2015 at 7:14 am)RobertE Wrote:
(March 28, 2015 at 7:06 am)AtlasS2 Wrote: Christianity and Islam do look-alike in many cases, it's the same religion after all, though like many Muslims, Christians too fell to believe in their "Hadith" of some saints who talked lies & shook hands with rome to produce an empire's version of the religion ; add to the that the books of saints & followers of Jesus who turned mad from the roman torture & prosecution, making them write false books.
-God is not absent, he's everywhere around you yet you can't see the marks of his work, because you still, until today, didn't look too carefully. Never asked yourself enough "what if"s ?
Looking at the sky is enough an evidence, it's a very general argument that is usually called "ambiguous" ; but it all I can provide, look at your body, the blessing of site you possess, date back to before evolution, who made your body capable to evolve anyhow ? the rain, the colors of fruits, everything.
-God doesn't like people with ego. That's why, it's always a prophet from mankind & a book ; this verse specifically is about your point :
( 31 ) And they said, "Why was this Qur'an not sent down upon a great man from [one of] the two cities?"
( 32 ) Do they distribute the mercy of your Lord? It is We who have apportioned among them their livelihood in the life of this world and have raised some of them above others in degrees [of rank] that they may make use of one another for service. But the mercy of your Lord is better than whatever they accumulate. http://quran.ksu.edu.sa/index.php?l=en#a...rans=en_sh
Eventually, the message would come with a common, usual guy with a book, if the person broke the ego and gave it a read, with real observation of nature, along with honest calling to god, the person shall see.
-About why worry about judgement day, because this is not a good life. It's short, it ends quickly, you're threatened with sickness or born handicapped, humans kill over food & natural recourses. At any moment, the tide might change, and you always know the end : you'll die. an infinite, headache-free heaven becomes becomes a nice revelation.
-who do we think we are, to demand that god comes by himself ? didn't he create earth ? the heavens ? put signs there, sun, moon, humans, a baby deer being born ? enough evidence that is.
Well, if God created us in his own image, then I am not impressed. If he created us and wanted to control us, why did he create our brain, an organ that has the capacity to evolve. Surely it would have been counterproductive for him to create people who were capable of thinking for themselves and being able to ask the questions that we ask today.
Isn't that what it did with the creation and failure of satan?
It knew what free will is capable of with a god junior creation.
