Posts: 2447
Threads: 19
Joined: May 13, 2015
Reputation:
8
RE: Perfect, Best of Possible, or Better than Nothing: Which criterion?
May 16, 2015 at 7:39 pm
(This post was last modified: May 16, 2015 at 7:50 pm by Randy Carson.)
(May 16, 2015 at 7:36 pm)Randy Carson Wrote: (May 16, 2015 at 12:17 pm)Pyrrho Wrote: ![[Image: xfzx35F.jpg]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=godlessmom.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F08%2Fxfzx35F.jpg)
Yes, there is free will in heaven.
No, there is no evil in heaven.
Is this a problem? Logically, if everyone in heaven has freely chosen to obey God, then there is no evil or sin. The stupidity of the above is found in the assumption that free will MUST result in evil. It doesn't.
Look at it this way:
Do kids in a classroom have free will? Yes.
Can they choose to be disruptive when there is a substitute teacher? Yes.
Can they choose to be obedient instead? Yes.
Is there any problem in the classroom in that case? No.
I realize that there are some really smart atheists whose arguments deserve to be taken seriously, but if a theist posted something this absurd, A) you guys would be all over it, and B) I'd be embarrassed that my faith was being represented so poorly.
(May 16, 2015 at 7:37 pm)Nope Wrote: Randy, do you not believe that some angels in heaven rebelled against god?
I do.
[Jesus] replied, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.
From the Catechism:
414 Satan or the devil and the other demons are fallen angels who have freely refused to serve God and his plan. Their choice against God is definitive. They try to associate man in their revolt against God.
Posts: 2344
Threads: 79
Joined: November 18, 2014
Reputation:
42
RE: Perfect, Best of Possible, or Better than Nothing: Which criterion?
May 16, 2015 at 8:07 pm
(This post was last modified: May 16, 2015 at 8:25 pm by Nope.)
Angels in heaven who were daily exposed to god still rebelled and yet you think humans will not.
Do you not think the rebellion of angels was evil?
Posts: 69246
Threads: 3759
Joined: August 2, 2009
Reputation:
258
RE: Perfect, Best of Possible, or Better than Nothing: Which criterion?
May 16, 2015 at 8:14 pm
Quote:I do.
[Jesus] replied, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.
From the Catechism:
That just makes you a brainwashed dope.
Posts: 68886
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
161
RE: Perfect, Best of Possible, or Better than Nothing: Which criterion?
May 17, 2015 at 6:25 am
(This post was last modified: May 17, 2015 at 6:26 am by The Grand Nudger.)
(May 16, 2015 at 10:06 am)Hatshepsut Wrote: (May 16, 2015 at 8:57 am)Rhythm Wrote: Meh, the counter doesn't actually address the statement....so calling it a counter is a bit of an exaggeration, I think. (May 16, 2015 at 9:01 am)robvalue Wrote: I don't know why anyone needs testing or rewarding. He's just fucking around for his own amusement. Well, I'm not amused.
I think the question of whether merit, or earned status, exists in a "benevolent" world is quite legitimate. Americans generally consider "advancing from humble beginnings to success through hard work" a great virtue. Sure, the Horatio Alger myth glosses over a lot of the rigid class structure actually seen in the USA, yet a society without incentives stagnates. As eastern Europe did back in the Warsaw Pact days, when the shelves in the store were all empty, except that one bin that had a glut of shoddy boots.
Because I'm not an authority on God, I don't know whether deity tests people or not. In some theologies, it does, in others, it refrains. Some of the tests which have been postulated over the years are clearly petty or cruel. The truth of that still doesn't affect how we humans do seem to get stronger and more competent by overcoming challenges. We don't get physically fit by sitting on our rumps. Which means I'd better get out for my walk today, as soon as it stops raining....  Sure, merit, earned status, all important things to wonder about, to opine upon...however, none of that will change the brute fact that -if- someone believes that there is a heaven, this is simply not the best possible world, end of. Unless they think heaven blows....of course. That's why it's not so much a counter as a meandering away from a gordian knot.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 20476
Threads: 447
Joined: June 16, 2014
Reputation:
110
RE: Perfect, Best of Possible, or Better than Nothing: Which criterion?
May 17, 2015 at 8:08 am
loved that star trek episode ...if memory serves, the woman in question was none other than a very young and beautiful Joan Collins..
No God, No fear.
Know God, Know fear.
Posts: 2447
Threads: 19
Joined: May 13, 2015
Reputation:
8
RE: Perfect, Best of Possible, or Better than Nothing: Which criterion?
May 17, 2015 at 9:43 am
(May 16, 2015 at 8:14 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Quote:I do.
[Jesus] replied, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.
From the Catechism:
That just makes you a brainwashed dope.
You are quite an ambassador for atheism and this forum, Min. Truly. 
Posts: 8731
Threads: 425
Joined: October 7, 2014
Reputation:
37
RE: Perfect, Best of Possible, or Better than Nothing: Which criterion?
May 17, 2015 at 9:54 am
(May 17, 2015 at 9:43 am)Randy Carson Wrote: (May 16, 2015 at 8:14 pm)Minimalist Wrote: That just makes you a brainwashed dope.
You are quite an ambassador for atheism and this forum, Min. Truly.
Here is a hypothetical if angels did rebel against a all loving god if god was truly all loving they would have no reason to exactly heaven.
In other words Lucifer and the angels know god on a personal level than humans so they would good reason to rebel.
But and again angels and demons not original to christianity neither is satan.
The bible isn't true its just a compilation of other mythologies.
Atheism is a non-prophet organization join today.
Code: <iframe width="100%" height="450" scrolling="no" frameborder="no" src="https://w.soundcloud.com/player/?url=https%3A//api.soundcloud.com/tracks/255506953&auto_play=false&hide_related=false&show_comments=true&show_user=true&show_reposts=false&visual=true"></iframe>
Posts: 8719
Threads: 128
Joined: March 1, 2012
Reputation:
53
RE: Perfect, Best of Possible, or Better than Nothing: Which criterion?
May 17, 2015 at 1:35 pm
(May 17, 2015 at 9:54 am)dyresand Wrote: But and again angels and demons not original to christianity neither is satan. I would say just not unique. That other religions might be referencing the same reality.
(May 17, 2015 at 9:54 am)dyresand Wrote: The bible isn't true its just a compilation of other mythologies. The second biography of Abraham Lincoln can be just as true as the first, just more comprehensive. You're just making assertion because you want them to be true.
Posts: 8731
Threads: 425
Joined: October 7, 2014
Reputation:
37
RE: Perfect, Best of Possible, or Better than Nothing: Which criterion?
May 17, 2015 at 2:55 pm
(May 17, 2015 at 1:35 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: (May 17, 2015 at 9:54 am)dyresand Wrote: But and again angels and demons not original to christianity neither is satan. I would say just not unique. That other religions might be referencing the same reality.
(May 17, 2015 at 9:54 am)dyresand Wrote: The bible isn't true its just a compilation of other mythologies. The second biography of Abraham Lincoln can be just as true as the first, just more comprehensive. You're just making assertion because you want them to be true.
Yeah most of the bible is comprised from other mythologies.
Flood myth Epic Of Gilgamesh
Hell - Egyptian book of the dead
jesus - Zeus, Horus, Mithras etc
Creation Beginning etc - Ripped off of greek mythology
There is just too much that is ripped off to even find anything original
Even this
Yaweh - Brahma
There is too much too call it a coincidence i say what i say with proof
Granted i can say their maybe be something original in there but character wise stories etc no they are no original.
Atheism is a non-prophet organization join today.
Code: <iframe width="100%" height="450" scrolling="no" frameborder="no" src="https://w.soundcloud.com/player/?url=https%3A//api.soundcloud.com/tracks/255506953&auto_play=false&hide_related=false&show_comments=true&show_user=true&show_reposts=false&visual=true"></iframe>
Posts: 8719
Threads: 128
Joined: March 1, 2012
Reputation:
53
RE: Perfect, Best of Possible, or Better than Nothing: Which criterion?
May 17, 2015 at 3:37 pm
I think you misunderstood.
Gilgamesh - describes same event from a different perspective.
Egyptian Book of the Dead - Refers to the same place.
Jesus was foreshadowed in the mythology of the pagans.
Creation myths - the Greeks version isn't even close.
Brahma versus YHVH - that's plausible but its a real stretch.
|
