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RE: If God changed his mind
July 18, 2015 at 3:33 pm
(This post was last modified: July 18, 2015 at 3:55 pm by dyresand.)
(July 18, 2015 at 8:25 am)Godschild Wrote: (July 18, 2015 at 3:59 am)Neimenovic Wrote: OR DOES HE?!?!
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/god_lie.html
Your precious book can't really make up its mind on that.
Get real and improve your reading skills, none of that says God lied, it does say prophets lied why don't you study and find out the reason behind those verses, to much trouble for you to find the truth, your loss not mine. Parroting what others use to discredit the Bible and not finding if what they say is true shows your lack of attaining the truth.
GC
Eh get real god in the bible has commanded people to kill and that is the kind of god you worship.
Atheism is a non-prophet organization join today.
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RE: If God changed his mind
July 18, 2015 at 3:36 pm
Hell, god commanded Abraham to kill his own kid.
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
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RE: If God changed his mind
July 18, 2015 at 3:36 pm
(July 18, 2015 at 8:25 am)Godschild Wrote: (July 18, 2015 at 3:59 am)Neimenovic Wrote: OR DOES HE?!?!
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/god_lie.html
Your precious book can't really make up its mind on that.
Get real and improve your reading skills, none of that says God lied, it does say prophets lied why don't you study and find out the reason behind those verses, to much trouble for you to find the truth, your loss not mine. Parroting what others use to discredit the Bible and not finding if what they say is true shows your lack of attaining the truth.
GC
Um. Yes. Yes it does. It says he deceives people.
Like, I'm not even knocking you rn. I'm confused. That's what it reads 
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RE: If God changed his mind
July 18, 2015 at 4:10 pm
(This post was last modified: July 18, 2015 at 4:11 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(July 18, 2015 at 2:00 pm)Godschild Wrote: (July 18, 2015 at 11:18 am)Lemonvariable72 Wrote: Okay that was the point I was getting at with this question. If you knew for certain that it was God and he was telling the truth when he told you that not to commit murder was a sin, would you kill people?
If I understand what you're saying ( if God told me that murder wasn't a sin would I murder, is this the question)? Actually, no, the question was...as it was plainly typed, what your status would be if god told you that -not- murdering people was a sin. If, IOW, god flipped the moral script, or, as he does from time to time - if he commanded you to kill. Do you pull the trigger?
Quote:You see when I answered your question before I said I knew God's mind to a point because He had revealed things to me. He revealed He wasn't a liar, nor could He be. God as already stated in the Bible that murder was a sin, for God to say to me murder wasn't a sin would then be a lie. God doesn't lie so He wouldn't tell me murder wasn't a sin, now the old devil might try that trick, however I would know better because Jesus said that those who are His would recognize His voice.
-further evasion.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: If God changed his mind
July 18, 2015 at 4:20 pm
(This post was last modified: July 18, 2015 at 4:20 pm by Muad·Dib.)
(July 18, 2015 at 2:00 pm)Godschild Wrote: If I understand what you're saying ( if God told me that murder wasn't a sin would I murder, is this the question)? You see when I answered your question before I said I knew God's mind to a point because He had revealed things to me. He revealed He wasn't a liar, nor could He be. God as already stated in the Bible that murder was a sin, for God to say to me murder wasn't a sin would then be a lie. God doesn't lie so He wouldn't tell me murder wasn't a sin, now the old devil might try that trick, however I would know better because Jesus said that those who are His would recognize His voice.
Sooo, you're an Israelite. And god says: " thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee."
So what do you do?
And please, just answer the question. Do you kill these people in droves? Yes or no?
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RE: If God changed his mind
July 18, 2015 at 4:25 pm
(This post was last modified: July 18, 2015 at 4:29 pm by ronedee.)
(July 17, 2015 at 10:42 am)Lemonvariable72 Wrote: This is too the Christians out there. If God suddenly and with absolute certainty it was him came and told all Christians you must steal, rape, and murder and to not do so was a punishable sin what would you do?
I'd follow my heart. Or for clarity: instilled morals from birth. My parents were not very religious. And I did my own thing as a "searching agnostic" for many years before I found what I needed in God's Word.
I believe we are all destined to follow what we believe to be true. We obviously have free will to say or do whatever we'd like. And none of us can say (whether we believe in God or not) that we've lived up to the highest standards we perceive as perfect in our minds.... aka: every one of us will regret something(s) in our lives that didn't turn out well.
The truth of the matter is: If we perceive God as ALL GOOD, as we are "generally" taught at an early age, we could not go along with what is NOT all good.. or against our true grain.
I don't blame atheists for much! My own dad is one. But I do blame anyone for distorting the truth. Most Christians are basically good. Not anything like is portrayed here daily. So,
the things shown here are a lie concerning the vast majority of good Christians. And that isn't fair. Not a bit fair.
And no "good" Christian would do what isn't "good". So, to finally answer your question bluntly? No.
Would you tell God who suddenly appeared in your face that you wouldn't do GOOD? Like: helping the poor, going to 3rd world countries and volunteering your LIFE to fellow human beings; as a way to eternal Life? I'm guessing that your answer would be the same as mine. No.
And no matter who we are, or the way we answer that question... we all fall painfully short in that category!
Quis ut Deus?
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RE: If God changed his mind
July 18, 2015 at 4:35 pm
(This post was last modified: July 18, 2015 at 4:43 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Excellent, so would I. Though I might still kill the sons of bitches..lol (no nudging from a god required). As to your question, depends on the good ordered, gods good or my good? Gods good includes killing those sons of bitches, remember? So, I'd say it's a case by case thing, eh?
You don't seem to have fallen painfully short in this thought experiment. You've indicated your willingness to stand up to god (given your beliefs, not easy) if that god ordered atrocity. I'd say you sailed -way- over the bar, personally. As it so happens, your self assessment lines up with another biblical story...concerning those who failed to carry out gods murderous commands thoroughly. They got the stick. So good luck to you, should you ever find yourself in their position.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: If God changed his mind
July 19, 2015 at 6:46 am
(This post was last modified: July 19, 2015 at 6:48 am by robvalue.)
Pyrrho: Thanks very much 
Follow your heart? So that's an admission morality doesn't entirely come from god then, or else your heart would tell you the same thing that god tells you.
Three people have now told me they would refuse to kill their family if god commanded it. (I'm very glad to hear that of course.) And I think they also claim morality comes only from god. So I don't understand on what grounds they can refuse. Are they finally admitting that in fact morality doesn't come from god?
The fact that they know this in advance means they are aware of some standard of actions being wrong, even if god says they are right. So how can morality just come from god? I'm not trying to be a clever arsehole, I'm serious. How can god "cross a line" if he makes the line?
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RE: If God changed his mind
July 20, 2015 at 11:10 pm
(July 18, 2015 at 3:36 pm)Neimenovic Wrote: (July 18, 2015 at 8:25 am)Godschild Wrote: Get real and improve your reading skills, none of that says God lied, it does say prophets lied why don't you study and find out the reason behind those verses, to much trouble for you to find the truth, your loss not mine. Parroting what others use to discredit the Bible and not finding if what they say is true shows your lack of attaining the truth.
GC
Um. Yes. Yes it does. It says he deceives people.
Like, I'm not even knocking you rn. I'm confused. That's what it reads
One can deceive and not be lying, the military uses it for a strategy all the time. The level and purpose of deceit is what would determine if deceiving were lying. God actually gave the false prophets a deceived mind so that their prophecies would not be true, so that they could never claim they were right in their prophecies. The false prophets were deceiving the people, they were wanting the glory and God put a stop to it and they eventually became the fools.
GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
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RE: If God changed his mind
July 20, 2015 at 11:18 pm
(July 18, 2015 at 2:00 pm)Godschild Wrote: If I understand what you're saying ( if God told me that murder wasn't a sin would I murder, is this the question)?
Rhythm Wrote:Actually, no, the question was...as it was plainly typed, what your status would be if god told you that -not- murdering people was a sin. If, IOW, god flipped the moral script, or, as he does from time to time - if he commanded you to kill. Do you pull the trigger?
That's exactly what I said, reread it.
Quote:You see when I answered your question before I said I knew God's mind to a point because He had revealed things to me. He revealed He wasn't a liar, nor could He be. God as already stated in the Bible that murder was a sin, for God to say to me murder wasn't a sin would then be a lie. God doesn't lie so He wouldn't tell me murder wasn't a sin, now the old devil might try that trick, however I would know better because Jesus said that those who are His would recognize His voice.
Rhthym Wrote:-further evasion.
The evasion is all your's or should I say lie, by dividing my statement so you could pretend to make an argument, my post should have been taken in it's whole.
GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
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