Sam Harris & Maajid Nawaz on reforming Islam

[Fidel_Castronaut]

Ew.

Honestly speaking, if somebody after all this time, still believe that ISIS is a real "islamist group wanting to achieve a global caliphate", then that somebody needs to check their head asap.

Seriously. A group of flip-flot wearing militants, surviving the airstrikes of : 1-USA, 2-GULF COUNTRIES, 3-NATO, 4-UK...I mean...

Then surviving the land attacks of : 1-Syrian opposition, 2-Assad, 3-Iraq, 4-Iran & Shia....I mean..

1. When ISIS themselves declare this, then, well, what other conclusion do you want us to come to?
2. The military intervention isn't actually the point or the threat, it's the ideological premise which propagates which is the threat. SEE: http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/184792347X/?tag=ecosia07-21 (excellent book, 100% recommend).

Ask yourself who's behind "Jihadi John" OP, because obviously Sam has no idea..Ironically, looks like ISIS has telekinesis powers allowing them to teleport across borders at any time, to cause the "correct disturbance" which gives the U.S or an ally the means to move.

Sorry Atlast I don't know what you mean. If you noticed in the past 4 years intervention in Syria has actually been non-existant from NATO or the US. It's only until relatively recently that the US has decided to bomb ISIS positions in central and North Eastern Syria, with only France (and to a very limited degree the UK) following suit. No other NATO nation is involved there aside Turkey who are more interested in bombing the Kurds into oblivion.

Talking of Kurds, remember when ISIS went into 100% genocide mode and tried to obliterate them? That was another reason why some Western forces decided to intervene, and even then a lot of it was entirely humanitarian (eg. Yazidis on MT Sinjar).

And now for a more contemporary angle, seems like the ones doing the most destructive things in Syria are not the west but rather Assad, Putin and ISIS (to varying degrees in various areas). The only places taking in refugees at the moment are Northern and Western Europe.

So to conclude, the US/NATO involvement in Syria and even Northern Iraq is almost non-existant aside some bombing campaigns and humanitarian aid drives (mostly by private organizations like Islamic Aid and MSF). The biggest players in the area are the Syrians themselves, now Russia, Iran, and the various rebel and terrorist groups which are involved in running battles throughout the country.

Hey..didn't ISIS branch from Al-Qaeda ? I mean, didn't the U.S support those same crazies or in other words : CREATE THEM ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cyclone

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_St....80.932006

The US did support the Mujahideen against the Soviets in Afghanistan in the 80s (anyone would have thought they'd have been grateful considering the the Soviet's brutal scorched earth policy which actually led the extremist Taliban getting into power. The US had little to do with that), but it certainly didn't 'create' IS or AQ. There's a complex set of events that led people like bin Laden to AQ, and there is absolutely no evidence that someone in the CIA met up with him and said "hay, bomb WTC would you so we can get [something] for [reasons]." Conspiratorial nonsense.

what is so funny, is that this is not a conspeicy theory..this is HISTORY. ISIS is a proxy, just like the proxies of South America that Che died fighting.
Let's be honest..who supports them with American weapons ?

No evidence of this. What is clear is that ISIS is NOT a proxy of the US. That's conspiratorial nonsense (again).

This is a crazy world, where not just cartoonist get shot, but actually little children in schools too (check American news).

Savor me this crap,OP. and Sam, I hope he's ignorant, because if not, then he's a lying hypocrite.

This is getting old. Focus on who's damaging the world for real.

or for a change, who turned his/her country into A WALKING TIME BOMB (Atomic Countries).

Illuminati confirmed.

[Mister Agenda]

Say Iraq had been an Orthodox Christian country, as it likely would have been if Islam had never been invented, but otherwise not much different (for the sake of the point). They're a troublesome country with fractious tribes ruled over be a secular government headed by a brutal and ruthless dictator. We go in and oust the dictator and the ruling party, most of whom are out on the streets and very unpopular because of the regime they supported. Thousands of them, with military and bureaucratic experience, flee to Syria, another Christian Orthodox country dominated by a sect sympathetic to the religious beliefs of the former ruling party of Iraq, and ruled by an increasingly unpopular brutal monarch. Many of the Iraqi expats join with terrorist groups who provide an outlet for their anger and hatred over being deposed and cast out.

Will they be able to find in the Bible justification for their subsequent terrorist acts? Would they be able to justify them if they were Buddhists? Hindus?

About the only religious groups I would expect to remain peaceful under the circumstances are Jains and Quakers, and they wouldn't have been in that position in the first place.

[WinterHold]

Pandæmonium

1. When ISIS themselves declare this, then, well, what other conclusion do you want us to come to?
2. The military intervention isn't actually the point or the threat, it's the ideological premise which propagates which is the threat. SEE: http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/184792347X/?tag=ecosia07-21 (excellent book, 100% recommend).

Declaring you're going left while you're actually heading right is a one fine tactic; panda. San-Tzu talked about it in his first rule in the famous "Art of War" : "keep your plans as dark as the night".

That's why I always say : the majority knows nothing about politics and warfare. By implanting a cancer calling for a caliphate, that came with the American invasion in 2003, you just covered up the arm deals and the billions that weapon manufacturers would profit from that conflict : selling the arms to the the Iraqi government. Let ISIS grow, the more it grows the more the conflict lasts, and the more the Iraqi government ask for guns.

You should conclude this, by comparing Iraq to before the American intervention. That country had no Jihadists nor "ISIS". That cancer came after the American invasion, just like it came to Afghanistan after operation cyclone.

"Keep your plans as dark as the night". Announce you're fat so your enemy underestimates your speed. Announce you're an "Islamic Caliphate" so the enemy forgets you're working to cause disturbance to let the arm dealers sell.

About that book, I didn't read it, but its title : did he forget Obama's squint drones ? I studied for my college in Egypt; everybody knew when a wave of bombing hit Cairo, that the army was behind it. Even the assasination of "Anwar Al Sadat" is well known to be a product of the army & "Hussny Mubarak"..Did the author mention "Operation Cyclone' and the role of governments in making these organization stronger ?

Sorry Atlast I don't know what you mean. If you noticed in the past 4 years intervention in Syria has actually been non-existant from NATO or the US. It's only until relatively recently that the US has decided to bomb ISIS positions in central and North Eastern Syria, with only France (and to a very limited degree the UK) following suit. No other NATO nation is involved there aside Turkey who are more interested in bombing the Kurds into oblivion.

Talking of Kurds, remember when ISIS went into 100% genocide mode and tried to obliterate them? That was another reason why some Western forces decided to intervene, and even then a lot of it was entirely humanitarian (eg. Yazidis on MT Sinjar).

And now for a more contemporary angle, seems like the ones doing the most destructive things in Syria are not the west but rather Assad, Putin and ISIS (to varying degrees in various areas). The only places taking in refugees at the moment are Northern and Western Europe.

So to conclude, the US/NATO involvement in Syria and even Northern Iraq is almost non-existant aside some bombing campaigns and humanitarian aid drives (mostly by private organizations like Islamic Aid and MSF). The biggest players in the area are the Syrians themselves, now Russia, Iran, and the various rebel and terrorist groups which are involved in running battles throughout the country.

All the Syrians I know point to ISIS coming out of nowhere. Even Jihadists like "Al-Nusra" got their asses kicked by ISIS out of nowhere. My friends believe Assad is controlling them. But nobody ever believes that it's a stand-alone organization. Somebody is behind it, and anybody with a tiny piece of brain in my region knows it. I say the U.S and I have my evidence : look at their weapons for a starter.

The U.S was present since they started to support "moderate resistance". I don't want to turn your stomach upside down, but please visit (bestgore.com). Despite the site being run by neo-nazies and racists, there's a lot of content (videos) coming from the combat in Syria, see the resistance yourself that America supports, see ISIS's videos, you'll know who's behind them.

The west supports all the Arab dictators with guns and arms.  The arab dictators oppress us with these weapons. to me panda, this is the end of the story : humanitarian is a word I can't believe when it's coming out from "Obama" or "Nato countries", when I see the Saudi army armed with Australian & American weapons, and the Egyptian police slaughtering protesters with American sniper rifles.

I saw two revolutions until now. All the slaughters took place by American & European weapons, all dictators were "protected" by American and European covering.

"Say left, do right". Don't believe everything you see on the media. Especially when they're owned by capitalist pricks.

[/url]

[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_State_of_Iraq_and_the_Levant#Foundation.2C_1999.E2.80.932006]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_St....80.932006

The US did support the Mujahideen against the Soviets in Afghanistan in the 80s (anyone would have thought they'd have been grateful considering the the Soviet's brutal scorched earth policy which actually led the extremist Taliban getting into power. The US had little to do with that), but it certainly didn't 'create' IS or AQ. There's a complex set of events that led people like bin Laden to AQ, and there is absolutely no evidence that someone in the CIA met up with him and said "hay, bomb WTC would you so we can get [something] for [reasons]." Conspiratorial nonsense.

http://www.bbc.com/news/10302946

The taliban itself is a creation of Pakistani Intelligence, an arm the U.S used to bitch-slap the soviets.
About bin laden..Of course the CIA didn't tell him to bomb WTC ! they did it directly !

can you explain " building 7 "?

No evidence of this. What is clear is that ISIS is NOT a proxy of the US. That's conspiratorial nonsense (again).

History repeats iself just like south america and operation cyclone and the taliban.

Then again what san tzu said : "keep your plans as dark as the night". They wouln't let an evidence for you to grasp.

Illuminati confirmed.

[The Grand Nudger]

Your compulsion to excuse islam, and the manner in which you do so, is an embarrassment to islam. It doesn't need your crackpot bullshit. Do islam a favor, and take a break.

[WinterHold]

Your compulsion to excuse islam, and the manner in which you do so, is an embarrassment to islam.  It doesn't need your crackpot bullshit.  Do islam a favor, and take a break.

I'm blushing..I'm really sorry rythem, but when I see human goats carrying american weapons, my brain tends to ask "where did they get those guns from". I mean, sun tzu's advice is ringing in my head all the time, when I see that nobody profits from the war but the U.S arm dealers I tend to ask myself more and more about the motives of the fighting sides..

Sorry for having a common sense, Rythem. I'm so embarrassed ! I will turn bbc on and listen to Sam asap !!! to become another "mainstream perfect citizen" and not a "conthpeerethy theoritht".

Humans are full of lies and deceit, remember, you yourself believe that one man convinced 2 billion people to believe a lie !
why is Mohammed peace be upon him different than the leaders of today ??

[The Grand Nudger]

He wasn't.....and that's precisely the problem.

[Nay_Sayer]

Your compulsion to excuse islam, and the manner in which you do so, is an embarrassment to islam.  It doesn't need your crackpot bullshit.  Do islam a favor, and take a break.

I'm blushing..I'm really sorry rythem, but when I see human goats carrying american weapons, my brain tends to ask "where did they get those guns from". I mean, sun tzu's advice is ringing in my head all the time, when I see that nobody profits from the war but the U.S arm dealers I tend to ask myself more and more about the motives of the fighting sides..

Sorry for having a common sense, Rythem. I'm so embarrassed ! I will turn bbc on and listen to Sam asap !!! to become another "mainstream perfect citizen" and not a "conthpeerethy theoritht".

Humans are full of lies and deceit, remember, you yourself believe that one man convinced 2 billion people to believe a lie !
why is Mohammed peace be upon him different than the leaders of today ??

I worry for your soul, you know it's not to late to accept FSM as your lord and savior.  He boiled for your sins.  RAmen

[Edwardo Piet]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYUPr6cH294

[WinterHold]

He wasn't.....and that's precisely the problem.

You believe them when you say "I defend Islam" when I speak about the truth in the Middle East !
The terrorist organizations can be crushed in two seconds !! what keeping them alive is the governments, Islam truly has nothing to do with it.

( 256 )   There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong. So whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold with no break in it. And Allah is Hearing and Knowing.


If Mohammed said this then...what cases do you have ???

Nay_Sayer

No thank you. I prefer my FSM mediam cooked on the grill.

Evie

Pocahontas presents a better case.

[The Grand Nudger]

Here again, we see precisely the problem.  You have a compulsion to defend islam....you don't actually succeed in satisfying that compulsion, rather, you indict it with your idiocy. Go crush the terrorists...I won't hassle you if it takes more than two seconds, shitwit.