Truck runs over 84 French people

[paulpablo]

I think that's jumping from one extreme to the other.


I don't think a police state needs to be enforced in order to prevent immigrants convicted of violent crimes including wife beating living in France and convicted terrorists living in the capital city of France.

I don't think the people of citizens of France would mind if there was a law deporting convicted violent immigrants and I don't think it would require a police state. The same goes for exiling convicted terrorists or some other kind of punishment.

If terrorism gets redefined to mean something less extreme and people are exiled for this reason then yes that could result in a police state, but these terrorists were convicted of breaking people out of jail, trying to go fight in Syria and were known to intelligence services.

They weren't just saying bad things about Jews, or acting a bit suspicious.

The trouble with that, of course, is that breaking people out of jail and trying to go fight in Syria are not terrorist acts, per se.

Boru

Apologies I made a few mistakes in the details. 

These are some important points better worded than how I put it that can be found on wikipedia. 

Chérif, also known as Abu Issen, was part of an informal gang that met in the Parc des Buttes Chaumont in Paris to perform military-style training exercises and sent would-be jihadists to fight for al-Qaeda in Iraq after the 2003 invasion.[94][95] Chérif was arrested at age 22 in January 2005 when he and another man were about to leave for , at the time a gateway for jihadists wishing to fight US troops in Iraq.
On 28 March 2008, Chérif was convicted of terrorism and sentenced to three years in prison, with 18 months suspended, for recruiting fighters for militant Islamist 's group in Iraq

French judicial documents state Amedy Coulibaly and Chérif Kouachi travelled with their wives in 2010 to central France to visit Djamel Beghal. In a police interview in 2010, Coulibaly identified Chérif as a friend he had met in prison and said they saw each other frequently.[101] In 2010, the Kouachi brothers were named in connection with a plot to break out from jail another Islamist, Smaïn Aït Ali Belkacem. For lack of evidence, they were not prosecuted.

So presumably there was evidence of them being part of terrorist organisations but not enough evidence of them plotting to break this person out of jail.  Still pretty important to note that they are convicted terrorists living in the capital.

[RobertE]

The trouble with that, of course, is that breaking people out of jail and trying to go fight in Syria are not terrorist acts, per se.

Boru

Apologies I made a few mistakes in the details. 

These are some important points better worded than how I put it that can be found on wikipedia. 

Chérif, also known as Abu Issen, was part of an informal gang that met in the Parc des Buttes Chaumont in Paris to perform military-style training exercises and sent would-be jihadists to fight for al-Qaeda in Iraq after the 2003 invasion.[94][95] Chérif was arrested at age 22 in January 2005 when he and another man were about to leave for , at the time a gateway for jihadists wishing to fight US troops in Iraq.
On 28 March 2008, Chérif was convicted of terrorism and sentenced to three years in prison, with 18 months suspended, for recruiting fighters for militant Islamist 's group in Iraq

French judicial documents state Amedy Coulibaly and Chérif Kouachi travelled with their wives in 2010 to central France to visit Djamel Beghal. In a police interview in 2010, Coulibaly identified Chérif as a friend he had met in prison and said they saw each other frequently.[101] In 2010, the Kouachi brothers were named in connection with a plot to break out from jail another Islamist, Smaïn Aït Ali Belkacem. For lack of evidence, they were not prosecuted.

So presumably there was evidence of them being part of terrorist organisations but not enough evidence of them plotting to break this person out of jail.  Still pretty important to note that they are convicted terrorists living in the capital.

Indeed, it is a question a large number of my colleagues ask each time. "Why don't they arrest them or detain them?" Well, it would be a good idea, but then should it be a large network, then the prison system would become ever more over-crowded than ever. Furthermore, they cannot really arrest someone because of suspicions; in fact they need evidence, and in spite of being on their lists, these people always get long enough to do whatever they want.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

But Kouachi wasn't convicted of terrorism. He was convicted of 'association with wrongdoers with the intention of committing a terrorist act'.

Boru

[paulpablo]

But Kouachi wasn't convicted of terrorism.  He was convicted of 'association with wrongdoers with the intention of committing a terrorist act'.

Boru

Their last names were both Kouachi so saying Kouachi doesn't narrow it down between the two.  I'm assuming only one of them then was convicted of terrorism? 

Various articles say that Cherif was convicted of terror offences, recruiting and trying to go abroad himself to fight.

[abaris]

The trouble with that, of course, is that breaking people out of jail and trying to go fight in Syria are not terrorist acts, per se.

Boru

In most European countries it's illegal anyway. If you're a citizen, you're usually not allowed to fight for a foreign power, as a soldier or mercenary. It may be up for debate if fighting in Syria is actually fighting for a foreign power, but there are quite a lot of trials indicting the ones doing so for other reasons. Among them terrorist acts, commited in Syria.

[RobertE]

But Kouachi wasn't convicted of terrorism.  He was convicted of 'association with wrongdoers with the intention of committing a terrorist act'.

Boru

Their last names were both Kouachi so saying Kouachi doesn't narrow it down between the two.  I'm assuming only one of them then was convicted of terrorism? 

Various articles say that Cherif was convicted of terror offences, recruiting and trying to go abroad himself to fight.

The Kouachi brothers and Coulibaly frequented a mosque in the 19th arrondissement of Paris which was salafist and extreme.

[Silver]

I hope no damage was done to the poor truck.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

But Kouachi wasn't convicted of terrorism.  He was convicted of 'association with wrongdoers with the intention of committing a terrorist act'.

Boru

Their last names were both Kouachi so saying Kouachi doesn't narrow it down between the two.  I'm assuming only one of them then was convicted of terrorism? 

Various articles say that Cherif was convicted of terror offences, recruiting and trying to go abroad himself to fight.

Sorry, I did mean Cherif - I should have been clearer. But being convicted of 'terror offenses' - in his case - isn't quite the same as being 'a convicted terrorist', since he didn't commit terrorist acts.

Boru

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

The trouble with that, of course, is that breaking people out of jail and trying to go fight in Syria are not terrorist acts, per se.

Boru

In most European countries it's illegal anyway. If you're a citizen, you're usually not allowed to fight for a foreign power, as a soldier or mercenary. It may be up for debate if fighting in Syria is actually fighting for a foreign power, but there are quite a lot of trials indicting the ones doing so for other reasons. Among them terrorist acts, commited in Syria.

I didn't say it was legal, I said it wasn't a terrorist act. While one may certainly commit terrorist acts IN Syria, trying to get TO Syria doesn't qualify one as a terrorist.

Boru

[CapnAwesome]

You want Russia and China to smack France around?? Or the US? As always you seem a little confused. Trust me, as a Muslim, you don't want to see what the Russians or Chinese are going to do the Muslim world if they were as involved in the middle east like the US is.

Of course what's worse then all three is what Muslims do to each other. Muslims are by far the number one victims of Islamic terrorism.

It depends on which way you look at it. If we are talking about Shi'as and Yazidis, then I am in agreement. Sh'ia muslims make up a very small percentage of Islam as a whole, and to be honest, it looks like Sunni Islam wants, for an end goal that is, a 100% conversion to their version of Islam. Further to your comment about Russia and China, there is continuing slavery over there (China) with the most vulnerable groups being Tajiks and Shi'as.

Yazidis aren't Muslim, and regardless of Sunni, Shia or whatever Muslims are the number one victims of Islamic terrorism. It's not like the Shia's haven't committed there share of terrorism against the Sunni. The whole region is Muslims killing one another. We just focus on the very small amount of spill over that happens in the west.