The Abrahamic sacrifice of his son.

[Minimalist]

For every civilian killed, it's as if whole humanity was killed. The Quran says that. Read it. That's my religion.

Yeah.... and fuck it.

[robvalue]

We need leadership that gives insight, and we can't let every person who wants to lead, to lead. There needs to be proof.

If there were proof we wouldn't need those leaders.  

I think you and I agree on a lot,  I haven't ever proven to you Mohammad and the family of Mohammad are the family of the reminder to be relied on of this time, nor that they are the true Kings.

I don't recognize kingship in the first place, so it wouldn't matter to me if you did or if they were.  

Yet if there is a true religion, we should all agree, it's really going to have be the chosen leaders and guides that make the case for it, and God guides through representatives he appoints and not people we just say have a calling and are appointed by God with no proof.

I disagree. The case makes itself or it isn't made. I have absolutely no use for imams...and if that case was ever made, whatever that case is..I'm not going to fall to my knees by default anyway.

This is something I always express to people..but I feel like they never really absorb it. I legitimately don't care whether or not your god or any god exists. Let that sink in. I;m just not that guy. I'll walk into the mouth of hell with my eyes wide open on a lawful order in service of a just cause over and over again....but these knees will only hit the ground once, in death. Your submission has been bought for nothing, by people who have neither authority nor a just cause...but mine is beyond their ability to purchase.

I've tried to tell him this before also. I think I got displaced so hard that I'm on ignore since he hasn't replied to anything I've written since he returned.

I just remembered, he once disproved his own religion to me. The conversation went something like this:

Me: "I wouldn't be a Muslim even if Islam was true."

MK: "Yes you would, you'd have to."

Me: "Why would I?"

MK: "If it was the real religion, then you must join it. I don't even understand how anything else could happen."

Me: "Well, since I haven't joined it, that means it can't be true, by your own logic."

Oh, maybe that's why I got put on ignore. That conversation.

[The Grand Nudger]

It's not like it would matter if you were or weren't on ignore.  They can't handle their own thoughts..why would your comments be different?

[robvalue]

@Rhythm: True. This is all deeply disturbing. I don't want to live in a society with people who are one hallucination away from hacking up their relatives. They seem to desperately want our endorsement for being part of this religion, and I can see why. It reduces people to having to defend the actions of barbaric and/or crazy people in a magic book. The fact that those characters often aren't even real just makes it more ridiculous.

This whole "devil is fooling you" and "don't trust your mind" thing is really old, too. It can't be that God is just really lame, can't write a damn book to save his wife, or is an evil fake goat herder tyrant; it must be that there's some other magical force making us think all that. But God doesn't get rid of that force, even though he easily could, presumably. Instead he watches us all get deceived, and presumably then punishes us for it. So even with magic story B covering the gaping holes in magic story A, Allah still comes off like a dick. The Allah I know from the Quran wouldn't sit back and let me talk all this shit. He'd be up in my grill by now. But I guess when there aren't people prepared to kill me "in his name", he goes strangely silent.

Even if we grant this nonsense, he seems to conveniently forget that the devil could be working him over too. Yet he somehow knows this isn't the case. We're all deluded, except him. It's a shame he can't see the irony of that.

ETA: Oh yeah, if we shouldn't trust our minds, then we probably shouldn't be picking up a knife if we hear "God" telling us to barbecue our relatives. Neither should Abraham.

[chimp3]

Fuck that shit! Abraham was a psychopath! If loyalty is an option for you, then you are a psychopath too! If you hear voices telling you to kill anybody, please save others needless trauma and check yourself into a psych hospital. Voices telling you to kill will get you admitted these days! Why? Because, as a society, we have morally and rationally progressed since the bronze age.

His faith was so strong that he was ready to kill his own. Then he knew that God exists according the Quran before that incident; in one incident fire did not burn him when his tribe wanted to sacrifice him. So he knew it wasn't "voices" or he is "crazy".

People in the past knew "crazy".

No, asshole! The way this wretched myth unfolds is that Abraham proceeds until Allah calls it off! He was fucking with Abe with no concern for the long term psychological health of Issac!

[The Grand Nudger]

@Rob
In fairness, I'm one hallucination from hacking up their relatives too.  As in, if they all started thinking like this I would no longer see them as people, just -threats- to people....and I'm good with a hatchet.

Fuck a bunch of isaac chimp..he's a prop.

-said no loving father................. ever.

Imma raise my boy to know better. His name is Ronan. Remember it, it's the cruel boot that you'll all feel on your necks. He has a brother, Mac, so it'll take two successful and consecutive attempts to stop that.

[robvalue]

We are seeing people plastering over doubt by claiming certainty. That's what faith is about. And whoopsidaisy, I believe other religions do the same thing. I guess faith can't be very reliable after all. Faith only works, and the devil only fails to deceive you, if you're a Muslim. How convenient. The devil really isn't up to par if he's letting everyone in the right religion get a free pass, is he? You'd think they would be his prime audience. Why is he going after me instead, who already thought every religion was bullshit before reading any of these books?

I really think MK should pack in this religious talk like he said he would. He's going to give himself a meltdown.

I'll wheel this video out again as it still very much applies.

[robvalue]

His faith was so strong that he was ready to kill his own. Then he knew that God exists according the Quran before that incident; in one incident fire did not burn him when his tribe wanted to sacrifice him. So he knew it wasn't "voices" or he is "crazy".

People in the past knew "crazy".

No, asshole! The way this wretched myth unfolds is that Abraham proceeds until Allah calls it off! He was fucking with Abe with no concern for the long term psychological health of Issac!

Also, the thing about crazy people is that they don't know they're crazy.

[WinterHold]

Why would I spread rumors about Manson?  Guy made his nut at Johns Pass, where and when I came up.   Nice guy.

You consider yourself a winner(whatever the hell that means)....but you lament the corpse of the ummah..and this thread demonstrates why it died so easily.  It had the entire world at it;s fingertips..but it couldn;t stop bickering about ghosts that don't exist or the rightful prince to a throne of blood.  You guys can't even talk around each other on an internet message board, a thousand years later, without starting that old war all over again.

Vae Victus.

This is a forum that discusses matters of belief; that's why you'll find me discussing religion it !
As for the faith the OP is advocating; it's cited in details right here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelver

It's not my fault that you are intentionally ignoring that.

The term Twelver refers to its adherents' belief in twelve divinely ordained leaders, known as the Twelve Imams, and their belief that the last Imam, Muhammad al-Mahdi, lives in occultation and will reappear as the promised Mahdi. According to Shia tradition, the Mahdi's tenure will coincide with the Second Coming of Jesus Christ (Isa), who is to assist the Mahdi against the Masih ad-Dajjal (literally, the "false Messiah" or Antichrist).

So it's not me who "flame up the historical disgusting story". It's the Shiite Twelver sect that the OP believes in. I'm telling him in every post to forget about his culture and people; and begin to think for himself. I think and believe that will play a crucial role in the treating of his condition in terms of psychological well being. But he is not retarded: he can see the destructive faith he is following. Frankly I blame his community most of all.

It's not me who believe that people of today; are the same as people of yesterday. All have distinct fate; all have unique paths to take.

---

His faith was so strong that he was ready to kill his own. Then he knew that God exists according the Quran before that incident; in one incident fire did not burn him when his tribe wanted to sacrifice him. So he knew it wasn't "voices" or he is "crazy".

People in the past knew "crazy".

No, asshole! The way this wretched myth unfolds is that Abraham proceeds until Allah calls it off! He was fucking with Abe with no concern for the long term psychological health of Issac!

How does this relate to what I said?
The fire incident took place when Abraham was young. The Issac case took place when Abraham was old.

Yes; he proceeded until God called. And it wasn't voices or madness.

[chimp3]

Why would I spread rumors about Manson?  Guy made his nut at Johns Pass, where and when I came up.   Nice guy.

You consider yourself a winner(whatever the hell that means)....but you lament the corpse of the ummah..and this thread demonstrates why it died so easily.  It had the entire world at it;s fingertips..but it couldn;t stop bickering about ghosts that don't exist or the rightful prince to a throne of blood.  You guys can't even talk around each other on an internet message board, a thousand years later, without starting that old war all over again.

Vae Victus.

This is a forum that discusses matters of belief; that's why you'll find me discussing religion it !
As for the faith the OP is advocating; it's cited in details right here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelver

It's not my fault that you are intentionally ignoring that.

The term Twelver refers to its adherents' belief in twelve divinely ordained leaders, known as the Twelve Imams, and their belief that the last Imam, Muhammad al-Mahdi, lives in occultation and will reappear as the promised Mahdi. According to Shia tradition, the Mahdi's tenure will coincide with the Second Coming of Jesus Christ (Isa), who is to assist the Mahdi against the Masih ad-Dajjal (literally, the "false Messiah" or Antichrist).

So it's not me who "flame up the historical disgusting story". It's the Shiite Twelver sect that the OP believes in. I'm telling him in every post to forget about his culture and people; and begin to think for himself. I think and believe that will play a crucial role in the treating of his condition in terms of psychological well being. But he is not retarded: he can see the destructive faith he is following. Frankly I blame his community most of all.

It's not me who believe that people of today; are the same as people of yesterday. All have distinct fate; all have unique paths to take.

---

No, asshole! The way this wretched myth unfolds is that Abraham proceeds until Allah calls it off! He was fucking with Abe with no concern for the long term psychological health of Issac!

How does this relate to what I said?
The fire incident took place when Abraham was young. The Issac case took place when Abraham was old.

Yes; he proceeded until God called. And it wasn't voices or madness.

Abraham was a mythical character. It is the ethics of the myth we are discussing.