Abortion: 10 years as an atheist and I still don't get it

[jessieban]

Yeah but since blacks only make up 10% of the population 33% is a huge amount, more per ratio than whites.

[EgoDeath]

1. That this bothers you shows that this is, and never has been, about 'human life'.  It's about controlling women's sexuality.  "If you don't want a child, don't have sex!"  This is told to women time and again.  Of course, it's never told to men.  I'm sure some people when called out on it may say "Yeah, I think it for men too!" but it's always 100% an afterthought.  It's NEVER a part of the initial conversation.  That's because this is rooted in misogynist ideas that women should not enjoy sex, and should not have sex, and should remain virgins until marriage.  It's why women who have sex with 10 partners are called whores, while men who have sex with 10 partners are called players.  Women are taught they do not have a right to their own body, that it is owned by their father until they get married, then by their husband until they die.  If this were about human life in the least, this would not concern anyone.  It would not be any part of the debate.  But as we see, it's constantly part of the debate.  Because it's not about, and never has been about, human life.  It's been about controlling women's sexuality.

No, it's not an afterthought. It takes two to create a child, no one is denying that. This isn't about "controlling women's sexuality," it just so happens that women are the ones who get pregnant. Tough luck. But, men are also just as responsible for the child they helped create. And while I doubt very many women at all, if any, see abortions as some "get-out-of-jail-free" card, I think the question of personal responsibility is one worth asking.

Also, you're adding in a bunch of sentiments and thoughts that I have not at all expressed or even hinted at, so I'm not sure where you're getting this other stuff from. Humans like sex, I don't think any person with half a brain denies this, but if you play the game, be willing to pay the price, that's all I'm saying.

2. Potential life is meaningless.  Sperm is potential life, but we don't advocate the preservation of every sperm.  This is because, as stated in part one, this is and has always been about controlling women.  Yes, it may grow up to be a human (assuming the woman doesn't miscarry) but this again is meaningless.  It would be to suggest that rape victims should be forced to give birth to their rapist's baby, because---by definition, that fetus is STILL potential life.  We would not punish a 3 year old for an action taken by their father.  Of course, most are okay with rape exceptions because again, this is not and never has been about human life.  Oh sure, we see some states advocating for outlawing ALL cases of abortion.  And those are the states that treat women the WORST.  Where Rapists have a right to child custody, and mothers can be threatened with prison for not complying.  The fight against abortion is not about human life.  This much is clear, given the pro-life crowd does NOT advocate for the actual living.  Oh sure, some do.  But they are an extreme minority, and with good reason. 

So you're already attempting to paint me into a very narrow corner, and this is really sad to see because you're using common left-wing tactics and parroting them almost word for word.

The fact is, a fetus will become a person, if left alone (and properly cared for). Sperm will not. Eggs will not. If you can't see the difference there, I'm not sure what to tell you.

3. Reducing abortion is fine.  And it can be done by providing free birth control and proper sex education -- two concepts the anti-choicers oppose.  Because again, this is not and has never been about human life.  They have framed it that way because that is the most convenient for them.  A majority of them have never cared about human life.    It should NOT, however, be done by telling women they should abstain from sex or by outlawing this medical procedure.

Okay? I don't disagree with free birth control and proper sex education. Never said that. Jesus.

I am pro-choice now and always have been, but I simply think abortion is an unfortunate thing and even though I'm a Democrat I find that too many on the left are insanely disingenuous about abortion and it's sad.

[The Grand Nudger]

In mere reality, the "too many on the left" probably think and say that abortion is justifiable for all of the same reasons that you do.

Don't you think?

[EgoDeath]

In mere reality, the "too many on the left" probably think and say that abortion is justifiable for all of the same reasons that you do.

Don't you think?

Possibly. I believe it is a women's health issue at the end of the day and truly see no reason why the government should have any business controlling what a woman does with her own body, even if what she is doing is ending a potential life. I'd rather see a young girl with no income or prospects of gainful employment get an abortion that she may regret than have her raise a child she doesn't want or have the resources to care for. Also, obviously, no woman should have to carry a fetus that is going to threaten her life or carry the child of a rapist.

[Little lunch]

In mere reality, the "too many on the left" probably think and say that abortion is justifiable for all of the same reasons that you do.

Don't you think?

Possibly. I believe it is a women's health issue at the end of the day and truly see no reason why the government should have any business controlling what a woman does with her own body, even if what she is doing is ending a potential life. I'd rather see a young girl with no income or prospects of gainful employment get an abortion that she may regret than have her raise a child she doesn't want or have the resources to care for. Also, obviously, no woman should have to carry a fetus that is going to threaten her life or carry the child of a rapist.

I wonder how many on the left don't find abortion justifiable but are too scared to say it?

I also think it's impossible to predict regret when it comes to having a child.
When we talk about being too poor to raise a chid properly, we'd still be raising them better than in a third world country.
Should third world countries have mass abortions?

In my opinion, the fact that your body has more rights than an unborn child, is the only valid reason for abortion.
And the health and rape thing of course.

I wouldn't tell a person not to have sex if they don't want a baby.
But I would say don't have multiple IVF procedures and then abort until you get the gender you want.
I'm saying that there are times when abortion is wrong.

[Acrobat]

You don’t have to get it. There’s nothing wrong with thinking abortion is morally unacceptable. Don’t have one. The problem comes when you try to force your moral views on a woman at the cost of her bodily autonomy.

You don’t always have bodily autonomy.

I’m not allowed to participate in a gladiator style fight to the death, even though it’s my body.

Women are not allowed to have abortions in later months, expect in some extreme cases.

At least in the gladiator scenario, I’m not taking an innocent life with me.

---

I view abortion as no more morally wrong than burning off a wart, removing an appendix, or pulling a tooth.

I doubt you do.

How about a 24 week old premature baby? Is that a wart, an appendix, or a pulled tooth? Is it not an actual life? If you killed it, should it not constitute as murder?

Or is it only a wart in earlier stages of development?

[The Grand Nudger]

No one cares how much you want to talk about a murderess.  Honestly, if the women who have abortions were the monsters you think they are why the fuck would you want to force them to birth and care for a child?

[Losty]

You don’t have to get it. There’s nothing wrong with thinking abortion is morally unacceptable. Don’t have one. The problem comes when you try to force your moral views on a woman at the cost of her bodily autonomy.

You don’t always have bodily autonomy.

I’m not allowed to participate in a gladiator style fight to the death, even though it’s my body.

Women are not allowed to have abortions in later months, expect in some extreme cases.

At least in the gladiator scenario, I’m not taking an innocent life with me.

Could you name 1 situation where you should not have bodily autonomy?

I view abortion as no more morally wrong than burning off a wart, removing an appendix, or pulling a tooth.

I doubt you do.

How about a 24 week old premature baby? Is that a wart, an appendix, or a pulled tooth? Is it not an actual life? If you killed it, should it not constitute as murder?

Or is it only a wart in earlier stages of development?

If you kill a premature baby, that is absolutely murder.
If you abort a fetus at 24 weeks gestation, that’s your business and anyone else with an opinion should fuck off.

[Nay_Sayer]

I have yet to hear a good argument as to why anyone other than the women in question has a right to dictate what she does with her uterus and autonomy.

[Nakara]

Looks like the state of Missouri is entering a state of misery.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reut...SKCN1TM15O