The Abrahamic sacrifice of his son.

[Mystic]

I'm saying when it comes to interpretation you can't separate the issue of interpreters to be relied upon. And no one is saying blindly follow, but with our limited time, who will we rely on to increase in vision and insights Atlas?

Quran is enough, it's sufficient, but with knowledge. And you and I can't be the center of attention for humans regarding it's knowledge if we have all it's knowledge, because, we have no proof we have it's knowledge.

We are limited in time, and can't center our attention to every person claiming to be enlightened.

I thought I replied to your contention. You and I both believe Quran uses reasoning. So if leadership is mentioned it with respect to these topics, it's obviously related, both the non-appointed type to reject and the appointed by God type to take refuge in and seek the insight to truth by.

Just as the topics are related in Quran, so then the reasoning relates the two topics in my reasoning as well. I don't think you can separate the issue of uniting on God's book and referring back to God and his Messenger from those who hold the authority from us, they go together and are to be sought both with thirst.

[Brian37]

You must have skipped over my post.

NO MK, there is nothing good or moral about a story that asks you to kill your own child. If you asked me to kill my cat, I would call you crazy and call the police. 


And the flood mythology is justifying genocide. Neither the Abraham mythology or the Noah mythology are the slightest bit moral. I'd say the same thing if you were a Christian or Jew arguing those same characters/stories.

Once again, you show you don't read my posts to even have a discussion. 

It's hard talking to you.

You brought up Abraham and Noah, I know the stories. All I told you is that you cannot defend the morality of either. Not because I hate you personally, I don't.  Those stories are mythology and were written by the people of antiquity for the people of antiquity.

[The Grand Nudger]

Someone is certainly extolling the virtue of blindly following.  

But hey, if you think there's reasoning in magic book, and it;s the reasoning that counts..I don't need guides or magic books.

[Mystic]

Once again, you show you don't read my posts to even have a discussion. 

It's hard talking to you.

You brought up Abraham and Noah, I know the stories. All I told you is that you cannot defend the morality of either. Not because I hate you personally, I don't.  Those stories are mythology and were written by the people of antiquity for the people of antiquity.

Yet in my perspective, neither was Abraham commanded to literally kill his son, neither was the family of Noah the only survivors (he had people following him that were referred to as low lives by their people).

[Edwardo Piet]

Abraham is as real as Frodo Baggins, and has less to teach us.

And at least Frodo had some really interesting feet.

And actually, nah, Frodo is much more real than silly Abraham. Or at least he used to be before he got himself banned from these forums and jumped back into the world of Tolkien.

Evidence that Frodo is more real: https://atheistforums.org/reputation.php?uid=201

As you can see, on the 9th of January 2015... God himself repped fr0d0 on this very website. So he MUST have at least existed back then. Unlike stupid motherfucking Abraham!

This is about as real as Abraham gets. Video evidence:





Unfortunately it turns out it's only evidence of Robert Webb's acting and not of any actual real Abraham. Unlike Frodo who is totally legit (God himself clearly repped him).

[Mystic]

Someone is certainly extolling the virtue of blindly following.  

But hey, if you think there's reasoning in magic book, and it;s the reasoning that counts..I don't need guides or magic books.

Once you see, what you see, you don't need them anymore, but regarding what you don't know, you need them again to show you, so that you see and perceive, without them, you will not be able walk the path nor make it to safety on the ship, you need their navigation and driving.

[Edwardo Piet]

Someone is certainly extolling the virtue of blindly following.  

But hey, if you think there's reasoning in magic book, and it;s the reasoning that counts..I don't need guides or magic books.

Once you see, what you see, you don't need them anymore, but regarding what you don't know, you need them again to show you, so that you see and perceive, without them, you will not be able walk the path nor make it to safety on the ship, you need their navigation and driving.

Sounds more like a poem written by a New-Ager than an argument!

"Once you see,

what you see,

you don't need them anymore.

But regarding what you don't know,

You need them again to show,

...you so.

That you see,

and perceive,

Without them you will not be able,

Walk the path nor make it to safety.

On the ship.

You need.

Their navigation

and driving.

....sparkle sparkle greatness drives nonlocal facts sparkle sparkle chopra chopra orderliness is the wisdom of dimensionless life sparkle sparkle chopra chopra."

[Minimalist]

I'm saying our minds cannot be trusted. We can't trust ourselves.

I trust my mind just fine.  It's you I have my eye on.

[Brian37]

You brought up Abraham and Noah, I know the stories. All I told you is that you cannot defend the morality of either. Not because I hate you personally, I don't.  Those stories are mythology and were written by the people of antiquity for the people of antiquity.

Yet in my perspective, neither was Abraham commanded to literally kill his son, neither was the family of Noah the only survivors (he had people following him that were referred to as low lives by their people).

I don't care, even as a "metaphor" it is still immoral. Not even if you put that in a "Cat In The Hat" book for children.

If you had two children, say 5 or 6, and you went up to one and said, "Hey prove your loyalty to me, here is a knife, kill your brother" only to say, "Just kidding".

If I saw a parent doing that to their kids, again, I would call the police. It is horrible even as a metaphor. 

The REAL reason stories of "sacrifice" exist in the ancient world, even in polytheism, in all of antiquity, was because BACK THEN humans lived under local tribal city king states ruled by that local royal family. Back then the mortality right was much higher, and if you were a surf, your survival depended on your loyalty to that local ruler, so if that ruler asked you to do something you did or risk arrest or death. BUT THAT WAS COMMON in all of antiquity. THAT is why that story exists, not because it ever happened in reality.

TODAY, technology and education have moved us away from such antiquated barbarity, and no sane psychologist would call the request of killing your own kid moral.

AND AGAIN, I would say the same to a Christian and Jew if they brought up the same story. It was written for the people of that time, and nobody back then had any modern understanding of human biology or how to raise a kid to be mentally healthy. It was a very authoritarian world EVERYWHERE in every religion. BACK THEN.

And again, if I overheard my neighbor calling for someone to murder their kid, or even their pet cat or dog for that matter, I would call the police. I would think they have something mentally wrong with them.

[The Grand Nudger]

Someone is certainly extolling the virtue of blindly following.  

But hey, if you think there's reasoning in magic book, and it;s the reasoning that counts..I don't need guides or magic books.

Once you see, what you see, you don't need them anymore, but regarding what you don't know, you need them again to show you, so that you see and perceive, without them, you will not be able walk the path nor make it to safety on the ship, you need their navigation and driving.

Talk about a non-starter.

If I -need- them, then you're no longer referring to reason..which I'm entirely capable of without any help.

No amount of you babbling has shown me anything other than the fact that whomever was driving the car ran your headmeat right into a brick wall at full speed....so................................?