The Abrahamic sacrifice of his son.

[chimp3]

Atlas, I was a Deist at a certain time. I consider it a shitty stance to take.

I do consider your paradigm highly irrational and that of misguidance.

That said, I don't think you are a bad person or disbeliever, but searcher searching for truth and inshallah you will find it.

No; your current faith is shit.

Yours too! LOL!

[WinterHold]

You don't have to be.  I'm in my head and telling you how it is...and explaining that it's not an issue of proof™.  Even if your god were real I still wouldn't and couldn't be a muslim.

I won't declare you a disbeliever, ever. When the last of God's proof returns and God manifest him through abundant miracles, perhaps you will be on the right side and I on the wrong. And this can be after we die or before. God knows us best.

How insulting ! so you're a coward and a liar?
You will lie to him?

The disaster is that he is cursing God, defining himself as a "non-believer", and still you lie and say he is not a disbeliever?
What's the catch ? Why the prostration ? so just like Catholics, you can't convince people with your shitty faith, so you try to bribe them into the toilet you're in?

[Brian37]

I have a suggestion.  Why don't you both give we filthy kafir some instruction of how the sunni side get's it wrong?

One thing I would never call a person a disbeliever.  The people that fought Mohammad 1] it was God that knew their hearts and declared them such 2] they hated believers and it was beyond obvious with the miracles they knew the truth but rejected it.

I never call anyone a disbeliever. I don't care if you are Atheist, for all I know, you are searching for the truth but no one has properly convinced you.

I don't care what you call me. 

I AM an atheist, godless AND  a disbeliever.

It never occurs to YOU that you got it wrong.

We get the same crappy argument from Christians too.

"Nobody has properly convinced you".......


Um no, it really is you have no evidence.

You sound like my mother when I was a kid when she tried to get me to get me to believe in Santa and the Easter Bunny, it worked when I was young, but I grew up. 

How about YOU seriously consider we are the ones here to help you?

[WinterHold]

No; your current faith is shit.

Yours too! LOL!

So as atheism !
Do you think you'll get a pass : ?

Curse; you'll be cursed.
Eye for an eye; right?

[The Grand Nudger]

I won't declare you a disbeliever, ever. When the last of God's proof returns and God manifest him through abundant miracles, perhaps you will be on the right side and I on the wrong. And this can be after we die or before. God knows us best.

How insulting ! so you're a coward and a liar?
You will lie to him?

The disaster is that he is cursing God, defining himself as a "non-believer", and still you lie and say he is not a disbeliever?
What's the catch ? Why the prostration ? so just like Catholics, you can't convince people with your shitty faith, so you try to bribe them into the toilet you're in?

Pointless anyway, as I already explained what I have is beyond his (or anyone's) ability to purchase.  Allah himself couldn't bribe me into compliance..and I'm told he has a much deeper purse.

[chimp3]

Yours too! LOL!

So as atheism !
Do you think you'll get a pass : ?

Curse; you'll be cursed.
Eye for an eye; right?

Yes, a pass! I thought by now you would blaspheming and reciting Nietzsche!

[WinterHold]

How insulting ! so you're a coward and a liar?
You will lie to him?

The disaster is that he is cursing God, defining himself as a "non-believer", and still you lie and say he is not a disbeliever?
What's the catch ? Why the prostration ? so just like Catholics, you can't convince people with your shitty faith, so you try to bribe them into the toilet you're in?

Pointless anyway, as I already explained what I have is beyond his (or anyone's) ability to purchase.  Allah himself couldn't bribe me into compliance..and I'm told he has a much deeper purse.

Hey; it might not work with you but it works on others. There is a huge wing in the Muslim world now -both Sunni and Shiite- that "never calls non-believers with what they are: non-believers" because they might "get them angry", or "fail to convert them".

So it might work on others.

---

So as atheism !
Do you think you'll get a pass : ?

Curse; you'll be cursed.
Eye for an eye; right?

Yes, a pass! I thought by now you would blaspheming and reciting Nietzsche!

You mean

“There are many kinds of eyes. Even the sphinx has eyes - and consequently there are many kinds of 'truths,' and consequently there is no truth”

― Friedrich Nietzsche

[url=https://www.goodreads.com/author/show/1938.Friedrich_Nietzsche][/url]
? I'm not an atheist for a reason ! This quote is one, even though it's quite new for me.

[Brian37]

Pointless anyway, as I already explained what I have is beyond his (or anyone's) ability to purchase.  Allah himself couldn't bribe me into compliance..and I'm told he has a much deeper purse.

Hey; it might not work with you but it works on others. There is a huge wing in the Muslim world now -both Sunni and Shiite- that "never calls non-believers with what they are: non-believers" because they might "get them angry", or "fail to convert them".

So it might work on others.

If you call me a non-believer, or atheist, that is my position, so why would it offend me? If you say it like a slur, as some Christians do as well, sure, it offends me too. Not because I haven't heard ignorant theists try to make me look bad, but it offends me because their logic sucks.

I've been an atheist since 01. If I had a nickle for every theist, you pick the label, that looked at me like I was a piece of scum, I would make Bill Gates look like a street wino.

If a Christian or Muslim or Jew wants to call me a "Non believer" wants to call me that they can. But if they think it is a word to slur me, or if not that, a word to take "pity" on me, your right, neither will work, because to us, it isn't about anything but evidence.

I don't care if you call me an atheist or non believer. That is what I am. I do care if someone uses that word as if I should be ashamed of it. Or use it like I am a lost puppy for them to save.

[Mystic]

Disbeliever from Islamic standpoint is one who is doomed to hell forever if he dies in that state.

But disbelief in what? Some people like to put "when the message of Islam is presented to them and they reject", but that to me is silly.

There is many verses that show the context is when the message and proofs have been understood and people have sight of them but turn away.

Of course the true message of Islam would have proofs offered that cannot be rejected.

But in the dark times, where is Islamic message presented properly and what proofs are presented to the extent it leaves no one doubting?

I refuse to call anyone disbeliever for good reasons.

[The Grand Nudger]

Hey; it might not work with you but it works on others. There is a huge wing in the Muslim world now -both Sunni and Shiite- that "never calls non-believers with what they are: non-believers" because they might "get them angry", or "fail to convert them".

That seems silly, though it does explain the deeply confused look on some peoples faces when they implored me to not do x in the name of god.  

So it might work on others.

Our society also produces feckless weaklings who lack the unfailing clarity of purpose behind these steely grays...obviously I don't come from that caste.  How could I explain to Mystic, within your shared ideology, who he;s talking to?  I'm seeking your expertise in this matter so that he and I can finally reach a mutual understanding even though we can never reach agreement.  

Suggest-a-sura?