Posts: 2435
Threads: 21
Joined: May 5, 2017
Reputation:
26
RE: Theists: Hitchens Wager
April 22, 2018 at 5:24 pm
(This post was last modified: April 22, 2018 at 5:25 pm by Succubus.)
(April 22, 2018 at 2:19 pm)Alexmahone Wrote: A believer may donate a million dollars to charity in the hopes that it will help him reach heaven. An atheist, not believing in heaven, may be less likely to do that.
Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation ( BMGF), also known as the Gates Foundation, is a private foundation founded by Bill and Melinda Gates. It was launched in 2000, and is said to be the largest private foundation in the US, holding $38 billion in assets. [4] The primary aims of the foundation are, globally, to enhance healthcare and reduce extreme poverty, and in America, to expand educational opportunities and access to information technology.
Wiki.
And then there's this bloke...
![[Image: ISSABusadBuffett.png]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=i775.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fyy36%2FSkepticMoney%2FISSABusadBuffett.png)
It's amazing 'science' always seems to 'find' whatever it is funded for, and never the oppsite. Drich.
Posts: 43162
Threads: 720
Joined: September 21, 2008
Reputation:
133
RE: Theists: Hitchens Wager
April 22, 2018 at 5:26 pm
Of course, the entire point of the "challenge" is that it's an impossible challenge. It can't be done.
Moral behavior is secular. That's the point.
Posts: 15452
Threads: 147
Joined: June 15, 2015
Reputation:
88
RE: Theists: Hitchens Wager
April 22, 2018 at 5:29 pm
I don't think an atheist can claim moral objectivity. Many do, but I personally don't see how it makes any sense to do so unless you believe in a higher being/moral law maker.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
Posts: 5664
Threads: 219
Joined: June 20, 2016
Reputation:
61
RE: Theists: Hitchens Wager
April 22, 2018 at 5:30 pm
(April 22, 2018 at 5:26 pm)Hammy Wrote: Of course, the entire point of the "challenge" is that it's an impossible challenge. It can't be done.
Moral behavior is secular. That's the point.
Yup!
God thinks it's fun to confuse primates. Larsen's God!
Posts: 66322
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
160
RE: Theists: Hitchens Wager
April 22, 2018 at 5:30 pm
(This post was last modified: April 22, 2018 at 5:31 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
The subject of moral realism isn't "things that god said", is how moral realism remains open to atheists.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 5664
Threads: 219
Joined: June 20, 2016
Reputation:
61
RE: Theists: Hitchens Wager
April 22, 2018 at 5:31 pm
(April 22, 2018 at 5:29 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I don't think an atheist can claim moral objectivity. Many do, but I personally don't see how it makes any sense to do so unless you believe in a higher being/moral law maker. The wager has nothing to do with moral "objectivity".
God thinks it's fun to confuse primates. Larsen's God!
Posts: 43162
Threads: 720
Joined: September 21, 2008
Reputation:
133
RE: Theists: Hitchens Wager
April 22, 2018 at 5:32 pm
(This post was last modified: April 22, 2018 at 5:33 pm by Edwardo Piet.)
(April 22, 2018 at 5:29 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I don't think an atheist can claim moral objectivity. Many do, but I personally don't see how it makes any sense to do so unless you believe in a higher being/moral law maker.
If morality is truly objective then surely it transcends even God though?
The Euthyphro dilemma Wrote:Is what is morally good commanded by God because it is morally good, or is it morally good because it is commanded by God?
If it's commanded by God because it's morally good, then you don't need God because you have moral goodness. If it's only good because God says so, then God can command evil things and merely say it's good.
I think the point is that if morality is objective, it's independent of anyone's opinion... including God's.
(April 22, 2018 at 5:31 pm)chimp3 Wrote: (April 22, 2018 at 5:29 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I don't think an atheist can claim moral objectivity. Many do, but I personally don't see how it makes any sense to do so unless you believe in a higher being/moral law maker. The wager has nothing to do with moral "objectivity".
True but it's fun to debate anyway 
Posts: 2461
Threads: 16
Joined: November 12, 2013
Reputation:
17
RE: Theists: Hitchens Wager
April 22, 2018 at 5:36 pm
(April 22, 2018 at 4:53 pm)Hammy Wrote: (April 22, 2018 at 4:49 pm)henryp Wrote: I'll let you get back to chatting up all these intellectuals who overwhelmingly believe Khemikal is the best debater then.
^ one of the biggest disappointments right there.
Out of curiosity, was the Khemikal vote a surprise to you?
Posts: 5664
Threads: 219
Joined: June 20, 2016
Reputation:
61
RE: Theists: Hitchens Wager
April 22, 2018 at 5:37 pm
(April 22, 2018 at 5:36 pm)henryp Wrote: (April 22, 2018 at 4:53 pm)Hammy Wrote: ^ one of the biggest disappointments right there.
Out of curiosity, was the Khemikal vote a surprise to you? What?
God thinks it's fun to confuse primates. Larsen's God!
Posts: 66322
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
160
RE: Theists: Hitchens Wager
April 22, 2018 at 5:37 pm
I'm a bit like the spanish inquisition, in that way.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
|
