RE: Theists: Hitchens Wager
April 22, 2018 at 5:24 pm
(This post was last modified: April 22, 2018 at 5:25 pm by Succubus.)
It's amazing 'science' always seems to 'find' whatever it is funded for, and never the oppsite. Drich.
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Theists: Hitchens Wager
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Of course, the entire point of the "challenge" is that it's an impossible challenge. It can't be done.
Moral behavior is secular. That's the point. 
I don't think an atheist can claim moral objectivity. Many do, but I personally don't see how it makes any sense to do so unless you believe in a higher being/moral law maker.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh  (April 22, 2018 at 5:26 pm)Hammy Wrote: Of course, the entire point of the "challenge" is that it's an impossible challenge. It can't be done. Yup!
God thinks it's fun to confuse primates. Larsen's God!
RE: Theists: Hitchens Wager
April 22, 2018 at 5:30 pm
(This post was last modified: April 22, 2018 at 5:31 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
The subject of moral realism isn't "things that god said", is how moral realism remains open to atheists.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
(April 22, 2018 at 5:29 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I don't think an atheist can claim moral objectivity. Many do, but I personally don't see how it makes any sense to do so unless you believe in a higher being/moral law maker.The wager has nothing to do with moral "objectivity".
God thinks it's fun to confuse primates. Larsen's God!
RE: Theists: Hitchens Wager
April 22, 2018 at 5:32 pm
(This post was last modified: April 22, 2018 at 5:33 pm by Edwardo Piet.)
(April 22, 2018 at 5:29 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I don't think an atheist can claim moral objectivity. Many do, but I personally don't see how it makes any sense to do so unless you believe in a higher being/moral law maker. If morality is truly objective then surely it transcends even God though? The Euthyphro dilemma Wrote:Is what is morally good commanded by God because it is morally good, or is it morally good because it is commanded by God? If it's commanded by God because it's morally good, then you don't need God because you have moral goodness. If it's only good because God says so, then God can command evil things and merely say it's good. I think the point is that if morality is objective, it's independent of anyone's opinion... including God's. (April 22, 2018 at 5:31 pm)chimp3 Wrote:(April 22, 2018 at 5:29 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I don't think an atheist can claim moral objectivity. Many do, but I personally don't see how it makes any sense to do so unless you believe in a higher being/moral law maker.The wager has nothing to do with moral "objectivity". True but it's fun to debate anyway 
 (April 22, 2018 at 4:53 pm)Hammy Wrote:(April 22, 2018 at 4:49 pm)henryp Wrote: I'll let you get back to chatting up all these intellectuals who overwhelmingly believe Khemikal is the best debater then. Out of curiosity, was the Khemikal vote a surprise to you? (April 22, 2018 at 5:36 pm)henryp Wrote:What?(April 22, 2018 at 4:53 pm)Hammy Wrote: ^ one of the biggest disappointments right there.
God thinks it's fun to confuse primates. Larsen's God!
I'm a bit like the spanish inquisition, in that way.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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