I'm not seeing it the way you're seeing it, Drich. In Genesis, it's clear Abraham was redeemed through faith and adherence to God's laws. The hope is probably that many nations will arise from him, and the whole world will be blessed through him. Abraham, for all his flaws and weaknesses, comes out as one of the good guys in the Bible.

None of that is erased by also having a Superman figure in the Bible. And even then the stories aren't meant to serve as just simply entertaining stories, there are all sorts of lessons to take from them that the Israelites would've found valuable. And if that means having a boringly all-powerful Superman being do this and that, so be it. As long as the messages are clear and the lessons are valuable, that's how they derived their hope.

(February 19, 2019 at 5:24 pm)Drich Wrote: but as i just pointed out how could have the writter of genesis seen the larger arch that 2000 years to play out? yes I have read the book in it's completeed form but the guy writting this story in genesis didn't. so for him to lay the foundatons to an arch that would be completed 2000 year after his work was written is well more than a fluke.

You really should take Bible 101. 
It was not an arch of 2000 years, and there was no "played out". Seriously ... you actually know nothing about how and when the Bible was written.
Truly amazing that people whose cults are built on this collection of texts actually know next to nothing about it.

He thinks that magic book is a fortune telling device. That's part of what makes it so damned magical, lol.

(February 19, 2019 at 10:14 pm)Grandizer Wrote: I'm not seeing it the way you're seeing it, Drich. In Genesis, it's clear Abraham was redeemed through faith and adherence to God's laws. The hope is probably that many nations will arise from him, and the whole world will be blessed through him. Abraham, for all his flaws and weaknesses, comes out as one of the good guys in the Bible.

None of that is erased by also having a Superman figure in the Bible. And even then the stories aren't meant to serve as just simply entertaining stories, there are all sorts of lessons to take from them that the Israelites would've found valuable. And if that means having a boringly all-powerful Superman being do this and that, so be it. As long as the messages are clear and the lessons are valuable, that's how they derived their hope.

here' the thing about the idea of abraham being redeemed by God's law... (maybe what I see and you don't.) There was no law of God in the time of Abraham. So there was no need of redemption as we understand it. God blessed abraham simpy because at his core Abraham wanted to live in the will of God before there was ever such a command.

As such I am simply pointing out a story arch you identified spans 4000 years and is not just limited to this book, which makes it alittle more than a camp fire story.

---

(February 20, 2019 at 12:51 am)Bucky Ball Wrote:

(February 19, 2019 at 5:24 pm)Drich Wrote: but as i just pointed out how could have the writter of genesis seen the larger arch that 2000 years to play out? yes I have read the book in it's completeed form but the guy writting this story in genesis didn't. so for him to lay the foundatons to an arch that would be completed 2000 year after his work was written is well more than a fluke.

You really should take Bible 101. 
It was not an arch of 2000 years, and there was no "played out". Seriously ... you actually know nothing about how and when the Bible was written.
Truly amazing that people whose cults are built on this collection of texts actually know next to nothing about it.

hey stupid...

Read what I said again.

I said the writter of genesis could not see the story arch... from the time of genesis 3 to when the book was written (traditional time line) was 2000 years and was penned by moses... Then from moses to Christ it was almost another 2000 years...

Feel like a retard yet? then you still do not understand.

I am saying moses who wrote genesis 2000 years after the fact could not have known what Jesus would do 2000 years into his future. so then to write a story arch that span 2000 years took more than what man could do alone. It was BS to leave a story opened like the bible was then and now for that kinda of time. So not a story, but more of a history who follows a 4000 year arch.

The author abslutely could see "the story arc" and even indicates as much in in the story.

Quote:Then the Lord said to Moses, Write this for a memorial in the book and recount it in the hearing of Joshua, that I will utterly blot out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven 

 See..that's a little thing called "foreshadowing" - christians believe in it too..they just have a different word for it in magic book.  "Prophecy".  Fortune telling, nevermind that it was never any such thing, ofc.  The people who wrote old magic book were writing somewhere between 800 and 600bc. Additionally, they weren't writing about any "jesus", that's just you reading your beliefs in. FWIW, rabbis have been telling christers this for centuries.

(February 20, 2019 at 1:30 pm)Gae Bolga Wrote: The author abslutely could see "the story arc" and even indicates as much in in the story.

Quote:Then the Lord said to Moses, Write this for a memorial in the book and recount it in the hearing of Joshua, that I will utterly blot out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven 

 See..that's a little thing called "foreshadowing" - christians believe in it too..they just have a different word for it in magic book.  "Prophecy".  Fortune telling, nevermind that it was never any such thing, ofc.  The people who wrote old magic book were writing somewhere between 800 and 600bc.  Additionally, they weren't writing about any "jesus", that's just you reading your beliefs in.  FWIW, rabbis have been telling christers this for centuries.

but according to you guys like ehrman the 'foreshadowing' provided doesn't match christ in the least little way... so which is it? are you right or is your hero ehrman right?

Seems to me you guys say whatever is convenient for the moment while we have a static unchanging line we must defend in an ever changing environment.

(February 20, 2019 at 10:39 am)Drich Wrote: Read what I said again.

I said the writter of genesis could not see the story arch... from the time of genesis 3 to when the book was written (traditional time line) was 2000 years and was penned by moses... Then from moses to Christ it was almost another 2000 years...

Feel like a retard yet? then you still do not understand.

Still stuck on that angry theist hermeneutic of insult. How very Christian of you. 
No, retard, it's YOU that are the ignoramus. 
Moses (there was no Moses) did not write Genesis, and there is no scholar that says that anymore, gramps.
That, ... you wouldn't know, as you have no education, (as evidenced also by your spelling and grammar). 
The "writter" ? Really  ... speaking of retard, how about look up the word "spellchecker". 
The writer was a Jew, and your Jebus had NOTHING to do with the Hebrew myths, or the arch of the story. the Jews do not care about the NT. 
There was no Moses, and your "arch" is an ignorant fabrication, as is your timeline. As I said, maybe some day you'll actually take a class in the subject. 
You really should stop making such a fool of yourself. Ehrman is not an authority on the OT, even while obviously, you are an authority on nothing.

(February 20, 2019 at 7:48 pm)Bucky Ball Wrote:

(February 20, 2019 at 10:39 am)Drich Wrote: Read what I said again.

I said the writter of genesis could not see the story arch... from the time of genesis 3 to when the book was written (traditional time line) was 2000 years and was penned by moses... Then from moses to Christ it was almost another 2000 years...

Feel like a retard yet? then you still do not understand.

Still stuck on that angry theist hermeneutic of insult. How very Christian of you. 
No, retard, it's YOU that are the ignoramus. 
Moses (there was no Moses) did not write Genesis, and there is no scholar that says that anymore, gramps.
That, ...  you wouldn't know, as you have no education, (as evidenced also by your spelling and grammar). 
The "writter" ? Really  ... speaking of retard, how about look up the word "spellchecker". 
The writer was a Jew, and your Jebus had NOTHING to do with the Hebrew myths, or the arch of the story. the Jews do not care about the NT. 
There was no Moses, and your "arch" is an ignorant fabrication, as is your timeline. As I said, maybe some day you'll actually take a class in the subject. 
You really should stop making such a fool of yourself. Ehrman is not an authority on the OT, even while obviously, you are an authority on nothing.

  what a douche... and hypocrite with no integrity.

You started your rant by telling me I needed to understand the biblical time line.

Then when I explain the time line to you as It was being used, then you retreat back taking your goal post with you to the fake atheist fall back position of there is no bible nor bible characters.

what a fraud you are. you want to school people in the bible and yet when you get schooled you pretend there is no bible... nothing ventured nothing loss? what about self respect you pos douche bag.. how very intellectually 'moral' of you to run when confronted with false facts!

(February 21, 2019 at 12:43 pm)Drich Wrote:   what a douche... and hypocrite with no integrity.

... says the fake Christian, after he calls people "retards". And then he has the balls to use the word "hypocrite"
LMAO. 

Quote:.... then you retreat back taking your goal post with you to the fake atheist fall back position of there is no bible nor bible characters.

Time to grow up Little Drichy, the Angry Theist. The non-historicity of Biblical characters has nothing to do with atheism. It's simply a fact.
One does not need Biblical literalism to be able to recognize wisdom in these texts. Third Graders and American Fundamentalists, (not unlike yourself), seem to need that, however.  

Quote:what a fraud you are. you want to school people in the bible and yet when you get schooled you pretend there is no bible... nothing ventured nothing loss? what about self respect you pos douche bag.. how very intellectually 'moral' of you to run when confronted with false facts!

Nowhere in this thread, or anywhere ever have I said there is no Bible. Maybe along with some spelling lessons, you maybe could take Reading Comprehension 101
What there is, is the fact that Biblical Studies in 2019 does not recognize that there is any foundation historically for some of the characters in some of the texts.
I know that's complicated for 3rd Graders, but it's a fact.

(February 21, 2019 at 3:27 pm)Bucky Ball Wrote: ... says the fake Christian, after he calls people "retards". And then he has the balls to use the word "hypocrite"
LMAO. 

how do you know what a christian is, you don't even believe in God!! So then how could you possible know what a follower of Christ is like? Have you even read Christ??? Do you know peter name was an insult? Meaning peter is not hat his mama called him. His mama called him simon. Jesus call him peter or petros (unstable/unreliable one) plus what did he call those who openly opposed him? The worst of the worst insults they had available to them. jackles dogs vipers wolves blind guides fools (retards) was what Jesus call the most spiritual men on the planet durning his time.. Jesus was killed because he humiliated these men to the point they were going to loose their position over the peole they ruled because Jesus was undermining their aire of spirituality by calling them things like retard or the 1st century equelivent. He died/was murdered because he insulted the wrong people too many times.

So again how is it am I being fake christian if I am literally following the path Jesus Himself walked? Seems to me, you never read you bible or even had a basic understanding of Christ. Seems to me your whole understanding of God is one made up from certain bits of the bible while ignoring other bits.. no wonder you know that God to be false as The God of the bible would never endorse someone who is making up a false version of him compiled from the bible and modern morality..

Here's the thing sport Jesus... never politically correct. Never followed mans morality. never respected a man due to the title he had awarded himself. Sounds like the opposite of what you know to be true if you judge me as not being 'christian.' If that is the case then know I have nor ever will have a desire to be what you know to be 'christian.'

So draw a line through that one on your list as a viable insult against me.

Quote:.... then you retreat back taking your goal post with you to the fake atheist fall back position of there is no bible nor bible characters.

Quote:Time to grow up Little Drichy, the Angry Theist.

righteous is the word I think you are looking for.. that maybe paired with passionate!

Quote: The non-historicity of Biblical characters has nothing to do with atheism.

there are more manuscripts concerning the bible and people in it than any other subject or book aside from ceasar himself in that time period. Therefore if the bible is in question by that standard then every other person in that time aside from ceasar himself is also in question. So that is a BS objection of biblical history.

Quote: It's simply a fact.
One does not need Biblical literalism to be able to recognize wisdom in these texts. Third Graders and American Fundamentalists, (not unlike yourself), seem to need that, however.  

no kinda does. Christ points towards literalism therefore literalism is needed. which now can be eaisly obtained!