An hour and a half of storytelling. This is supposed to be evidence for what exactly?

Quote:The reason is simple most people are not very observant.

Not to mention that most people are as dumb as rocks.

(October 4, 2011 at 6:26 pm)padraic Wrote:

Quote:The testimony of these guys is the most compelling and fascinating evidence for ufos I have come across:

(1) A UFO by definition is 'an unidentified flying object',not sentient life from another plant. Nor is that conclusion implied,let alone inferred..

(2) Testimony in itself is neither compelling evidence nor proof. At best it's 'credible',but still needs supporting evidence. EG "I witnessed a murder" followed by a graphic account. The law still needs some hard evidence to proceed,such as a body,blood,or missing person.

A trial lawyer* will tell you that contrary to popular belief,eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable.The reason is simple; most people are not very observant.

Do I believe the people saw what they claimed? Don't know, but I accept that they probably believe it ,and are not lying.

Context; My beloved brother is one of the most honourable men I've ever known. If HE said (and was not taking the piss); "I saw A UFO", I would believe him.If he then said "it was from another planet", I would believe he believed that, but would not believe the claim without some pretty extraordinary evidence. (say a wreck with dead aliens)

Carl Sagan said "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence


*my closest male friend is a senior prosecutor.(like an ADA in the US)

You make some good points. I don't think all these guys are saying that these ufos are necessarily extraterrestrial.

I would love the opinion of someone like your friend who has experience of assessing eye witness accounts and how their reliability is determined- because they must be reliable enough or eye witnesses wouldn't have any credibility in law surely? The documents that are being released under the freedom of information act, seem to be corroborating testomonies like these.
The 'proofs' offered at this news conference are open to scrutiny.

The fact that so many of these airforce/military personnel experienced the same things whilst going about a normal days work (I have no reason to believe all these people are lying or deluded), is very compelling to me, that ufos are real.

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(October 4, 2011 at 6:27 pm)Rhythm Wrote: An hour and a half of storytelling. This is supposed to be evidence for what exactly?

So I take it you didn't watch the hour and a half 'story'?

There was a documentary on the History channel a few years back dealing with UFOs. In one of the scenes, they addressed 'witness recall'.

A group of people were sent on a 'nature hike' and were asked to document everything they saw for a 'pop quiz' later. Along the way they encountered a couple of men standing near some debris. A month after the 'hike', the participants were queried about their observations. Most of them suggested some interaction with the men including one that insisted the men had weapons and detained the hiker.

After the 'interview' was over, the hikers were shown the video of them passing the men and debris with no interaction whatsoever.

Nah, I didn't, I skipped through trying to find the point where one of them held up a piece of alien technology. Didn't happen. I am disappoint.

Extraterrestrials used to be real but they're all so phony now.
Even the Wookies are shaving now, but they don't clean their razors properly.

(October 5, 2011 at 8:05 am)IATIA Wrote: There was a documentary on the History channel a few years back dealing with UFOs. In one of the scenes, they addressed 'witness recall'.

A group of people were sent on a 'nature hike' and were asked to document everything they saw for a 'pop quiz' later. Along the way they encountered a couple of men standing near some debris. A month after the 'hike', the participants were queried about their observations. Most of them suggested some interaction with the men including one that insisted the men had weapons and detained the hiker.

After the 'interview' was over, the hikers were shown the video of them passing the men and debris with no interaction whatsoever.

That's very interesting and it shows that our memories can play tricks on us. If we just take the testamonies of the hundred plus veterans that Robert Hastings (the guy who organised the news conference in the video) has taken over the last 40 years, I'm sure some of them will be mistaken or maybe even lying. What is compelling about them though, is the sheer number of the same experiences being testified to, and the subsequent declassified papers that are corroborating these 'memories'. I've been checking out Robert Hastings, and his web site is very interesting:

http://www.ufohastings.com/

There's a link on there to a Larry King programme in 2008 which Robert Hastings appeared on, which is very interesting to watch. It shows film 'evidence' of a ufo and it has a debate with scientists and sceptics about these claims.

I'm absolutely amazed at this stuff. I'm not focusing on the speculations of aliens with agendas, and some of the whackier stuff that people believe, but in light of these compelling testamonies and the work that Robert Hastings (and there are other researchers who I'm going to check out) has been doing over the past 40 years, I can't see how this stuff is not being taken seriously.

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(October 5, 2011 at 8:52 am)Rhythm Wrote: Nah, I didn't, I skipped through trying to find the point where one of them held up a piece of alien technology. Didn't happen. I am disappoint.

It is a long video to watch if you're not that motivated , so I understand. I would recommend the Larry King vids. They're a bit shorter and they do contain 'evidence' ie film of a ufo, and the debate with guys like yourself, so you may find that more interesting if you can be bothered

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIYpdBJxxdI

(October 5, 2011 at 1:32 pm)CoxRox Wrote: I'm absolutely amazed at this stuff. I'm not focusing on the speculations of aliens with agendas, and some of the whackier stuff that people believe, but in light of these compelling testamonies and the work that Robert Hastings (and there are other researchers who I'm going to check out) has been doing over the past 40 years, I can't see how this stuff is not being taken seriously.

Think about all the religious 'researchers' and testimonies of people who believe in 'miracles' and people who believe in christianity, or islam, or judaism etc.

I don't take any of those things seriously just because a lot of people go on about them.

I'm interested in this alien shit as much as the next guy, but I realised a while ago now how it's just another brand of bollocks.

(October 5, 2011 at 2:31 pm)Napoleon Wrote: Think about all the religious 'researchers' and testimonies of people who believe in 'miracles' and people who believe in christianity, or islam, or judaism etc.

I don't take any of those things seriously just because a lot of people go on about them.

I'm interested in this alien shit as much as the next guy, but I realised a while ago now how it's just another brand of bollocks.

I think there is a considerable difference in the case of these airforce personnel. A religious experience is in your mind and not usually shared by someone else at the same time. These guys have witnessed these things, which multiple other people have seen at the same time, and which has been documented at the time. If someone told me they'd seen a ufo I'd most likely think they saw a chinese lantern or weather balloon or something that has a perfectly mundane explanation. The stuff that has been going on at these nuclear facilities is not in that catagory. This is documented stuff with many eye witnesses and secondary (?) witnesses associated with the 'occurrences' that further back up the authenticity of the 'events'. From reading Robert Hastings' reports, it seems to be the case that the ufos are accepted as real by the military, but what they are is what is at issue. These guys are very different from the people who claim to be abducted etc.

Just because someone works for the airforce doesn't mean that they can't be a gullible twat.